Oil Fairy?!?!

[jeffhuey1n]

This is a weird one: got my Toys For Tots (T4T) truck (1972 M35A2 WO/W) all set up for the big kickoff on the 5th (Oct) (picture below). I wanted to show the T4T committee what I had done and make sure the truck was set up as they envisioned. Got halfway there and my wife pulled up beside me and told (yelled a the top of her lungs) me the truck was dumping oil. Bleep. Turned the truck around and drove home at about 15 MPH with one eye on the road and one on the oil pressure gauge. It was low but the pressure stayed above zero so better to get myself home than pay a tow truck driver.

It took me a while to get everything together and replaced/repaired as needed. After getting the grill and radiator out of the way, it was pretty clear the oil was coming from the RPM adapter. I took it apart and it was time for a replacement....not to mention the cable was only hand tight. Anyway, as I said, new parts went in. Everything oil soaked got replaced: the belts, which needed replacement anyway; the radiator hoses, top and bottom. The generator was slinging oil out of the vent holes from the overspray. When I ran up the truck today it ran fine so hopefully it'll be OK.

Here's the weird part. I've had this truck for 2-3 years. never added oil. Checked it once in a while. Since there were no leaks, I didn't check it very often. When I bought it I checked the level and it was good. The correct capacity is 22 quarts if you change the filters. I drained 30 +/- quarts today. If my math is correct, that's two gallons more than required. Add in the unknown amount I dumped...probably had around 34 to 38 quarts in total...where did all that oil come from? Is here an oil fairy running around dumping extra oil in random M35's? There was no water in the oil. There wasn't any diesel in the oil. I'm pretty sure there wasn't any 80-90 weight gear oil in it...that stuff stinks and is easy to tell when it's mixed in with other oil.

Is there a common practice amongst the Army (this truck is former Army) transportation companies to overfill the crankcase? I can see why they might but extra oil isn't a good thing...it blows up oil seals and violates tech data. Last thing...I replaced the oil with Rotella. My 1970 already had it in it when I bought that truck and it runs really smooth plus I get pressure quicker than the regular oil from the TM. I quit wearing my tin foil hat but if this becomes a trend, I might have to make a new one (sat on the old one..non-repairable.

 

[Goose2448]

So you have never changed it since you owned it? I am following this one.

 

[ratat98]

A bad head gasket can get fuel into the oil thus making it appear that there is more oil than there should be.

Edit: Actualy there's several things that can get fuel into the oil in these trucks. Check the oil again and see if it has a diesel smell to it.

 

[russ132]

The o-ring on my shut off lever went bad and allowed diesel into the crankcase. Easy fix and one of the first places I would look.

 

[jeffhuey1n]

No, I never changed the oil..on any of the M35's. I pulled the dipstick, felt the oil and it wasn't gritty. There were no leaks on any of them and as I understand it, there is an oil analysis program the Army uses to keep track of contaminants. Place a sample in a tester, burn it and it'll tell you how much gunk is in the oil. If the levels are in limits, there's no reason to change the oil. A couple assumptions are involved: all three trucks came from Guard units. Two came from North Dakota and the third came from Kansas. The Guard takes good care of their equipment, at least my three are in excellent shape. Paint needs to be redone on my last one but that's just for cosmetic reaons. With all my maintenance experience, my hard learned philosophy is if it ain't broke, don't mess with it.

Over the winter I'm going to go ahead and chage the oil in the other M35's. I forgot to mention the M1009 did get an oil change. The M52 has a lot of work to do, oil change is on the list. The M211 is going to be even more work than the M211 so it too will get an oil change and a long list of other things.

When I first started down the green road, I was going to change everything changeable just because. I'm learning that maybe that isn't entirely necessary; at least as it applies to my collection. I'm still learning; tomorrow brings new challenges, can't wait. I'll post the results of the oil changes on this thread. Maybe someone can use the data.

Additional note: It doesn't appear to be transferring diesel into the crankcase. The diesel smell isn't there. The consistency of the oil felt correct for what was in there. Don't think it's diesel but I'm going to double check the plumbing so I can say I'm 100% sure either way. Thanks for the tip n that valve

 

[Keith_J]

The o-ring on my shut off lever went bad and allowed diesel into the crankcase. Easy fix and one of the first places I would look.

That is the quantity adjuster lever. Yes, the shut-off solenoid presses on it, over-riding the governor spring force.

Anyhow, this is one possible leak points for diesel to get into the crankcase since the injection pump is lubricated with engine oil. The o-ring is a static seal, the shaft is another possible leak path as it is precision honed as the only seal. If it leaks, it must be replaced. And there are several types.

 

[doghead]

Yes, the shut-off solenoid presses on it,

There is no shutoff solenoid on a multifuel.

 

[shenkmen]

there is an oil analysis program the Army uses to keep track of contaminants.

Blackstone labs can do this for you - Blackstone Labs

 

[eagle4g63]

I'm shocked no-one has mentioned to do a quick search for "making oil"...........there are a multitude of threads on where all the "extra" oil is coming from............it does sound like you have diesel getting in there..........FDC is one of the common ways.

 

[Keith_J]

There is no shutoff solenoid on a multifuel.

That is what it is called in the manuals. Yes, I KNOW it is activated by Bowden cable to the dash, right next to the master power switch.

Yes, for the past 100 years, solenoid has earned the definition of linear electromagnetic motor. But it is a French word for cylinder.

Did you know shock absorbers are also called dashpots? And they don't actually absorb electrical shock, much less mechanical. They are dampers with primarily velocity reduction as their purpose.

 

[searls84]

I discovered the exact same thing with my deuce this weekend, about 2 extra gallons of oil in the crankcase. I feared the worst ( diesel in the oil). After doing a lot of reading on "making oil" I had concluded that fuel HAD to be getting into the oil... How else could that much extra oil have gotten in there? literally as i was opening the hood to start pulling the HYdraulic head to replace the orings, my neighbor, who is a heavy diesel mechanic with close to 20 years experience, stopped by. I told him what I was about to do with the HH. He asked why I thought there was fuel in the oil, so I told h the story... Long story short, he showed me a couple easy ways to check for fuel in the oil. First one, get a piece of regular note book paper and set your oilly dipstick on it. As the oil permeates, you will se a distinct halo form around the oil spot if the oil is contaminated. Second one, pull the dipstick and turn it upside down. If contaminated, the oil will "spider web" down the dipstick. His advice to me was to drain the excess oil out of the crankcase(and pour it back in the fuel tank I might add ) and drive it but check the level often the watch for changes in the oil level. Make sure you mark exactly where the oil level was after the excess was drained to the correct level..... I put about 200 miles on mine since then and no change in level. I might add I had recently done an oil/filter change also and added the 22 quarts.

Hope this helps, and hope you don't actually have fuel in your oil!

 

[jeffhuey1n]

I discovered the exact same thing with my deuce this weekend, about 2 extra gallons of oil in the crankcase. I feared the worst ( diesel in the oil). After doing a lot of reading on "making oil" I had concluded that fuel HAD to be getting into the oil... How else could that much extra oil have gotten in there? literally as i was opening the hood to start pulling the HYdraulic head to replace the orings, my neighbor, who is a heavy diesel mechanic with close to 20 years experience, stopped by. I told him what I was about to do with the HH. He asked why I thought there was fuel in the oil, so I told h the story... Long story short, he showed me a couple easy ways to check for fuel in the oil. First one, get a piece of regular note book paper and set your oilly dipstick on it. As the oil permeates, you will se a distinct halo form around the oil spot if the oil is contaminated. Second one, pull the dipstick and turn it upside down. If contaminated, the oil will "spider web" down the dipstick. His advice to me was to drain the excess oil out of the crankcase(and pour it back in the fuel tank I might add ) and drive it but check the level often the watch for changes in the oil level. Make sure you mark exactly where the oil level was after the excess was drained to the correct level..... I put about 200 miles on mine since then and no change in level. I might add I had recently done an oil/filter change also and added the 22 quarts.

Hope this helps, and hope you don't actually have fuel in your oil!

I'm on my way out to try out your ideas. There is no fuel smell coming from the oil. I had a couple fuel leaks that I finally got around to fixing so I'm up to date on my fuel smelling certification. The old oil smelled lie old oil. The new oil which has about an hour on it, smells like new oil. The oil is so clear that if there is fuel in there, I can't tell by looking at it. I'll post te results of the two tests later today.

Thank you for the tips. I do not want to crawl back into that engine compartment for at least a couple days.

 

[Scooteerr]

Subscribed!!!!

 

[fuzzytoaster]

Blackstone labs can do this for you - Blackstone Labs

I second this. They do give you a good breakdown on the specifics.

 

[Flyingvan911]

Do you have the manifold fuel heater? That's how my deuce made oil. But on the bright side, I bet that gallon of diesel in there helped clean the crankcase.

 

[jeffhuey1n]

Checked the oil both ways you indicatedd and it looks like I failed the paper check. The oil didn't spiderweb down the dipstick. And now there looks like more "oil" is in the crancase. Probably about two quarts. Now to figure out where the cross over is occuring. I'll go through the "making oil" search. Hope I can find a quick fix....

 

[jeffhuey1n]

Do you have the manifold fuel heater? That's how my deuce made oil. But on the bright side, I bet that gallon of diesel in there helped clean the crankcase.

I believe I have the manfold heater. I'll get the book out and double check. Hope the O rings are standard sized...

 

[phil2968]

Is your FDC bypassed? They will leak fuel into the crankcase. That's why the military started bypassing them.

 

[jeffhuey1n]

Do you have the manifold fuel heater? That's how my deuce made oil. But on the bright side, I bet that gallon of diesel in there helped clean the crankcase.

Dumb question: how does the manifold heater make oil? I can't see anywhere that fuel can enter the oils system. Am I missing something?

 

[jeffhuey1n]

Is your FDC bypassed? They will leak fuel into the crankcase. That's why the military started bypassing them.

Yes there is a sticker on one of the oil filter cans stating the FDC' has been bypassed.