Oil filter cans that retain oil?

[gimpyrobb]

I have worked on a couple deuces in my time in the MV hobby. I have heard that some multifuels oil filter cans don't bleed out. When Westy and I did the "dual deuce recovery" from Texas, I encountered my first one. We parked the trucks one day, and the next day I went to change the oil filters. Man did that make a mess! Yesterday I did an oil and filter change on a deuce and had the same issue.

In some other thread(I forget which) Rusty said that a "tractor puller guy" said some trucks have ball check valves that keep the oil from draining back. I am wondering how many of our members have motors that hold oil in their filters for longer than a minute or two?

Rusty, is there a chance of you asking your friend exactly where that check valve is and maybe ask for a pic? If he has any available I would be very interested in one or two.

 

[Scar59]

Gimp,
What un seats the check valve, pump pressure in the can? Subsribed for follow up
JC

 

[gimpyrobb]

I'm not sure yet. I never thought twice about it till I was working on that truck yesterday and I remembered what Rusty said. The gears started turning later on.

 

[dmetalmiki]

Well it would be a one way valve, so no (exessive) pressure would be needed to prime up the system to full pressure. I was tinkering arround for a while with that idea, but then went the whole hog and fitted Hi pressure (fork truck) lift pumps to my trucks. With a one way valve in the line obviously. We are watching this post with interest however and would like to know more about these (type of) filters. I have never come accross any in all my years I have to say.

 

[JasonS]

TM9-2815-204-35 probably has the best oiling diagrams for the multi (Figure 18 on page 9 and Figure 19 on page 11). There is no check valve for the oil filters shown on either figure and no mention in the text.

Where would it be located? The valves on the side of the block are for the piston cooling nozzles and the oil pressure regulating valve.

 

[rustystud]

TM9-2815-204-35 probably has the best oiling diagrams for the multi (Figure 18 on page 9 and Figure 19 on page 11). There is no check valve for the oil filters shown on either figure and no mention in the text.

Where would it be located? The valves on the side of the block are for the piston cooling nozzles and the oil pressure regulating valve.

According to Tracey, the oil pressure relief valve should have a check valve in there to prevent drain back of oil. They are there in White engines , and some of the Hercules have them too. According to Tracey the ability to install the check valves are still there in the casting. This is in the external oil pressure regulating assembly.

 

[gimpyrobb]

I'm pretty sure there is a block I can look over down at Crusher's place. I'll see if I can find anything and post back up.

 

[rustystud]

Thanks Gimp. I was going to take mine apart to check, now I won't have too ! Of course if it turns out to be true then I will be taking mine apart to fix .

 

[oddshot]

I took the OP regulator assembly AND oil filter mount off of Andy's engine with the idea I might find someday what you are looking for now.

As I was working on Andy's engine I spent a long time looking at these pieces and the passage through the block that joins them wondering if a one way valve in that circuit somewheres might help stop oil drain back. I would look at BOTH assemblies, the regulator AND oil filter mount.

Although its for a LDS-465, you might find the attached diagram useful.

TM 9-2815-210-34-2-2 has quite a bit of information on the OP regulator assembly. Start reading at 4-197.

 

[Jeepsinker]

I just wonder if they started being left out because they were causing problems of some sort. Maybe sticking closed and not allowing oil flow through when it should?

 

[gimpyrobb]

So I never really looked at that diagram(even though its been posted MANY times) till now. It looks to me like the oil goes through the motor's bearings and then to the oil filters. I was under the impression that it went to the filters first. Am I reading that wrong?

If I see it right, I don't know why folks worry about the lull in oil pressure.

 

[rustystud]

So I never really looked at that diagram(even though its been posted MANY times) till now. It looks to me like the oil goes through the motor's bearings and then to the oil filters. I was under the impression that it went to the filters first. Am I reading that wrong?

If I see it right, I don't know why folks worry about the lull in oil pressure.

No, the oil goes to the oil filters and oil cooler then to the pressure regulator. You can verify this by removing the 3/8" NPT plug just under the oil filter housing and using a pressure gauge you will see the oil pressure is about 110 PSI here.

 

[rustystud]

I just wonder if they started being left out because they were causing problems of some sort. Maybe sticking closed and not allowing oil flow through when it should?

According to Tracey the "White" tractor engines still use this check valve. Does anyone have information on the White tractor engines ?

 

[Recovry4x4]

Interesting. In my years of experience dealing with deuces and multifuels, the White branded engine seems to suffer more catastrophic failures the hercs and continentals. No hard data, just my 20 years of deuce ownership.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Interesting. In my years of experience dealing with deuces and multifuels, the White branded engine seems to suffer more catastrophic failures the hercs and continentals. No hard data, just my 20 years of deuce ownership.

We actually have a thread here on SS that asked that question. I thought someone had proof that the continentals were more prone. I'll have to see if I can dig it up.

 

[rustystud]

Here is a picture of where that oil plug is located.

 

[gimpyrobb]

No search I could think of resulted in what I was looking for, sorry(motor brand failures).

 

[welldigger]

We actually have a thread here on SS that asked that question. I thought someone had proof that the continentals were more prone. I'll have to see if I can dig it up.

If continental is the problem child then I bet the reason is numbers. Continental seems to be the most prolific engine brand. It also tends to be some of the older engines that may have been rebuilt one or more times.

White engines having the check valve would kinda make sense. Especially since this seems to be fairly uncommon and not a feature of every white. I believe whites tend to be the newest manufactured engines since hercules was bought by white in the late 70's/early 80's and then sold off in the early 90's. By this time the multifuel wasn't being made anymore anyways.

Which engine brand is the best? No idea. I'm not sure there's enough evidence one way or another.

 

[Floridianson]

Just a thought, If our pressure valves are on the side of the block and they are sealing then would not the check valve have to be in the oil pump to prevent back flow oil returning to the pan that way.

 

[Scar59]

So I never really looked at that diagram(even though its been posted MANY times) till now. It looks to me like the oil goes through the motor's bearings and then to the oil filters. I was under the impression that it went to the filters first. Am I reading that wrong?

If I see it right, I don't know why folks worry about the lull in oil pressure.

Chris, you're spot on. The main bearings get Oil pressure at engine start, oil then flows to the filters, oil pressure transmitter, upper galley etc. The engine does not truely experience a "dry start" .