Old style head gaskets

[doghead]

Rusty, if you could get the part numbers for the studs from your buddy and post them here it would be great. Then we just need to get them posted in the deuce parts quick reference guide. Same with the 12 point rod bolts. Nobody wants to search through three dozen threads that are 30 pages long to find a part number.

What 12 point rod bolts are you referring to?

 

[gimpyrobb]

What 12 point rod bolts are you referring to?

There is 3 different rod bolts used on the rods to crank. The latest and greatest is the 12 point(head) bolts.

 

[rustystud]

View attachment Scan0019.pdf

Rusty, if you could get the part numbers for the studs from your buddy and post them here it would be great. Then we just need to get them posted in the deuce parts quick reference guide. Same with the 12 point rod bolts. Nobody wants to search through three dozen threads that are 30 pages long to find a part number.

Here are the rod bolts. The head studs from "ARP" are not under the Hercules engine. What Tracey did was use the specs of the studs and called "ARP" and told him what he needed. They had the same studs under a different application. Here are the studs specs, and I'll call "ARP" and find out the correct part Numbers.

 

[rustystud]

Got the part numbers from "ARP" . The studs are all 9/16" . The 6.160" long stud is # AQ6.120-1LB , price is $11.50 ea. . The 6.380" long stud is # AQ6.500-1LB , price is $12.34 ea. The 2.620" long stud does not have an exact match, but this is the closest and should work fine, #AQ3.475-1LB , price is $6.58 ea. The heavy duty washers are # 200-8515 , price is $0.96 ea. The nuts are a 12 point and are # 300-8305 , price is $8.44 ea. The grand total if you use their washers and the special 12 point nuts is $567.44 . If you only buy the studs and use your own nuts and washers the price is $304.24 . Of course shipping is extra.
All the studs and nuts and washers are rated at 200,000 PSI tensile strength. This would be more then enough to hold our heads on !

 

[gimpyrobb]

Has anyone(other than Rusty's tractor guy) had a failure of head studs? I don't believe I've ever heard of one.

Not that the info isn't great to have, I just think its a waste of $$$$.

 

[rustystud]

Has anyone(other than Rusty's tractor guy) had a failure of head studs? I don't believe I've ever heard of one.

Not that the info isn't great to have, I just think its a waste of $$$$.

With the better studs you can increase the torque to the heads, thus getting better sealing on your head gaskets.

 

[welldigger]

With the better studs you can increase the torque to the heads, thus getting better sealing on your head gaskets.

I wonder if you combined better studs with a copper head gasket and stainless fire rings if this would eliminate blown head gaskets?

 

[gimpyrobb]

I still wonder how much torque it will take to rip a stud out. That block that Crusher has, that I plan on looking into the oil pressure regulator, might have some destructive testing done on the head studs. I wonder if my 3/4 drive torque wrench will break anything.

 

[welldigger]

I still wonder how much torque it will take to rip a stud out. That block that Crusher has, that I plan on looking into the oil pressure regulator, might have some destructive testing done on the head studs. I wonder if my 3/4 drive torque wrench will break anything.

It will be interesting to see if the stud fails or if the block fails. If either.

 

[rustystud]

I still wonder how much torque it will take to rip a stud out. That block that Crusher has, that I plan on looking into the oil pressure regulator, might have some destructive testing done on the head studs. I wonder if my 3/4 drive torque wrench will break anything.

The studs are 9/16" with a minimum depth of 1" of threads. That should take some serious amount of pulling pressure to pull out. More then likely you will strip out the nut's threads.

 

[gimpyrobb]

The studs are 9/16" with a minimum depth of 1" of threads. That should take some serious amount of pulling pressure to pull out. More then likely you will strip out the nut's threads.

I don't know if I agree with that. At least, on the stud going into the block. I have pulled a couple and it didn't give me the "warm and fuzzys". I will record all data I can and post up(sometime).

Also, the threads going into the block are not as fine as the threads to hold the heads on.

 

[rustystud]

I don't know if I agree with that. At least, on the stud going into the block. I have pulled a couple and it didn't give me the "warm and fuzzys". I will record all data I can and post up(sometime).

Also, the threads going into the block are not as fine as the threads to hold the heads on.

The studs have a standard thread going into the block, which should have a depth of 1" . The threads where the nut goes on is a fine thread.
I see your a night owl too Gimp !

 

[doghead]

I just noticed that in the Troubleshooting the LDS manual, figure 64, shows 3 different head gaskets. Only one vented.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Good call, thats page 49 for quick reference.

 

[rustystud]

I wonder if you combined better studs with a copper head gasket and stainless fire rings if this would eliminate blown head gaskets?

I'm sure it would take some outrageously high pressure to do it ! In our applications I think it would last the engines life no problem.

 

[welldigger]

I'm sure it would take some outrageously high pressure to do it ! In our applications I think it would last the engines life no problem.

I'll be in touch with a custom gasket maker next year. My head gasket is ok for now so it's not high on the list. But if it does go I only want to do it once.

The gasket company I have been eyeballing says high compression diesels are an excellent candidate for copper gaskets. They also make flat fire rings so you don't have to groove the head for o rings.

 

[doghead]

If you change the studs to stronger ones, and increase the torque I think you will deform the head and or block. I do not think the gasket is the weak point, or the hardware.

I do not recall a single member ever posting that they have had a head gasket failure after replacing them with a new(newest) set.

Maybe after 45 years, a simple and rather inexpensive head gasket replacement is all that is really needed for another 50 years of use.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Marti(M543a2) in Northern Indiana is a farmer and uses his trucks for work. I saw him indicate in another thread that he likes the old style better for some reason.


Edit, found it!
Post #14:
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...-Gaskets-Today&p=780828&highlight=#post780828

 

[welldigger]

If you change the studs to stronger ones, and increase the torque I think you will deform the head and or block. I do not think the gasket is the weak point, or the hardware.

I do not recall a single member ever posting that they have had a head gasket failure after replacing them with a new(newest) set.

Maybe after 45 years, a simple and rather inexpensive head gasket replacement is all that is really needed for another 50 years of use.

Most people are afraid to punish their truck like I do.

The fire rings in these gaskets can burn through. Copper will not burn through. Then if you o ring the cylinders I doubt you would ever loose compression due to head gasket failure. You can also have a thicker gasket made to compensate for head and deck machining.

The problem copper gaskets suffer from is they don't seal oil and coolant very well. A flat deck and heads are critical. Along with proper sealant application. If care is taken they work extremely well. They can also be reused.

 

[rosco]

So in following this thread closely, the only agreement so far, is that head gaskets, at least in the past, have been a problem. That, and use a copper coating. Back in the '60s & '70s, we used to use aluminum paint spray paint. Is there more for something of a summary? Use the latest style gaskets? Is there a Manufacture/part number? I fix a lot of stuff, but I'm at an age where I want it "stayin fixed"!