On road Hmmwv regulation

[Army doc]

I'm in contact with USDOT, EPA and DoD in an effort to get clarity and to amend the Barr on the onroad use of HMMWV.

USDOT reports there is no regulation barring the use of HMMWV on public roads. Can you please provide the regulation barring the use? We can probably change the regulation.

EPA. Each state is responsible for emissions standards for vehicles in that state. Do you have an EPA regulation number barring HMMWV from on road use?

DLA/DoD. Do you have a regulation for the barring of onroad use? We can have DLA to answer for why they are wording their EUC they way they do. Once again, an amended blanket EUC can be sought.

 

[orgnal]

I'm in contact with USDOT, EPA and DoD in an effort to get clarity and to amend the Barr on the onroad use of HMMWV.

USDOT reports there is no regulation barring the use of HMMWV on public roads. Can you please provide the regulation barring the use? We can probably change the regulation.

EPA. Each state is responsible for emissions standards for vehicles in that state. Do you have an EPA regulation number barring HMMWV from on road use?

DLA/DoD. Do you have a regulation for the barring of onroad use? We can have DLA to answer for why they are wording their EUC they way they do. Once again, an amended blanket EUC can be sought.

Thank you for doing this. Is it possible to share your correspondence? Scan and upload?

McReddy

 

[Army doc]

Thank you for doing this. Is it possible to share your correspondence? Scan and upload?

McReddy

Each agency requests the actual code and line number for the regulation of concern. I'm requesting the regulation numbers we need looked at. Does anyone have them?

The state of Michigan Secretary of State published a memo barring titles for recently purchased HMMWV. USDOT and EPA "regulations" are quoted without specifics. The EUC was quoted but the EUC can be changed. USDOT was not aware of a Barr to road use of HMMWV.

Please help me with the regulations we need looked at.

 

[papakb]

AMGs basic restriction on onroad use of the HMMWV revolves around 3 things. No collapsible steering column (even though they tear out when troops use them to assist getting into the truck), no side impact protection (even though there are plenty of 4 wheelers out there with vinyl doors), and no padded daskboard (OK, they got us there).

 

[erasedhammer]

AMGs basic restriction on onroad use of the HMMWV revolves around 3 things. No collapsible steering column (even though they tear out when troops use them to assist getting into the truck), no side impact protection (even though there are plenty of 4 wheelers out there with vinyl doors), and no padded daskboard (OK, they got us there).

Yeah, Unfortunately logic is not an ideal that any government organization possess. I've tried explaining that to them, they tend to ignore it. Lol what dashboard.

 

[snowtrac nome]

I would also suspect not enough hmmwv's have been crash tested ,even though gi's have been doing this unofficially for years.

 

[ohiohmmwv]

Many of the engines have stickers that state they're exempt from emissions. Can't remember if they specifically state they're exempt from EPA standards.

 

[snowtrac nome]

at the time they were manufactured they had heavy truck motors in them there by being exempt remember the one tons back in the day that had no catalytic converters and could still burn regular gas they were also exempt. that is all that sticker meant no egr required because it was a heavy duty motor intended for commercial hd applications like motor home chassis or box trucks

 

[donkren]

Army Doc

I have a copy of the memo you cite from Ruth Johnson, Michigan Secretary of State. Here is a link to it on the Michigan SOS website:

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/sos/Humvee_Info_Letter_526983_7.pdf

I believe it is rife with errors. Starting with her statement that "The Federal government mandates that Humvees are restricted to off-road use only."

Per Susan Lowe, of the Public Affairs Office of the Defense Logistics Agency, the agency charged with selling off vehicles at the end of their service life, "the ultimate decision on whether a state will license these vehicles for on-road use is a decision within discretion of state licensing authorities based on state law." I'll try to upload a copy of my correspondence with her, but I first ran across this info in this article:

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...may-share-roads-with-military-surplus-humvees

Ms. Lowe explained SF-97 for HMMWVs are annotated with "off road use only" as a prudent measure to alert state licensing authorities HMMWVs do not meet Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. (She did not explain why HMMWVs are singled out for this dubious 'honor' as all Vehicles manufactured pursuant to military specifications and sold directly to the U.S. military are exempt, and therefore not tested. Only the HMMWV is stamped.)

The FMVSS only apply to new vehicles. (Not used vehicles) By there own admission, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (the component of DOT that extabishes and enforces the FMVSS) has no authority over the disposition that any owner wishes to make of his motor vehicle, whether civilian or military.."

See: https://isearch.nhtsa.gov/gm/93/nht93-5.2.html

Ms. Johnson also states in her memo "the federal government requires the buyer to sign an end-use agreement acknowledging the Humvee cannot be registered for street use, as well as a Hold Harmless Agreement..."

The EUC does not mention any restriction on road use. As you probably know, the buyer must state how he will utilize his HMMWV. You could interject your own restriction here, but I put "for intended use (as a personal utility vehicle)" on my EUC and it cleared, so clearly no restriction is required.

I believe the Hold Harmless Agreement is irrelevant to state licensing rules. It only protects Gov Planet and the DLA from liability connected with the HMMWV. As one Steel Soldiers member stated (I'm paraphrasing) The Hold Harmless Agreement might instead say you must wear a clown nose and shoes when you drive your HMMWV, but that would not be binding on the DMV either.

I don't see how an "Off-Road Use Only" notice on the auction website is binding either.

Furthermore, The NHTSA has ruled that the HMMWV was manufactured primarily for use on public roads, twice. When AM General sought a determination from the NHTSA that military tactical vehicles (including the HMMWV) were not manufactured primarily for highway use, they paradoxically argued that the M998 HMMWV complied with MIL-STD-1180B, a military performance safety standard "comparable to the Federal motor vehicle safety standards." The NHTSA doubled down on an earlier ruling, and determined that the HMMWV is manufactured primarily for use on public roads.

See: https://isearch.nhtsa.gov/gm/88/nht88-1.29.html

I hope some of this information helps you.

 

[Scar59]

Just an FYI, Kentucky has amended KRS 186.020 with SB 176GA -that will allow owners of military surplus vehicles to operate then on Kentucky highways. A "military surplus vehicle" is defined at Section 3 of the bill. This definition includes (A) multi-purpose wheeled surplus military vehicle that: (a) Is not operated on continuous tracks. (b) Was originally manufactured for and sold directly to the Armed Forces of the U.S. (c) Was originally manufactured under the federal mandated requirements set forth in 49 CFR Part 571.1. ( but its going to cost you) KY County Clerks are entitled to collect a fee of six dollars ($6) for services rendered for each vehicle. The county sheriff is entitled to a certification fee of five dollars ($5) for each vehicle inspected/certified or $15 if the sheriff must travel to the site of the vehicle. The inspection is to verify the VIN number matches the supporting documentation. This goes into effect July 1, 2017. -don't forget that sales tax will be collected if not already paid at time of original purchase. Got to love Kentucky..

 

[cruzinz28]

Living in Maryland, and owning several vehicles both Military and Civilian origin over the years, I have always been confused why Maryland would not tag the HMMWV. Below is a description on the requirements to acquire Maryland Historic Tags:

"To be registered as a historic vehicle (class L), your vehicle must be a passenger vehicle, motorcycle or truck (with a GVWR of 10,000 pounds or less): be 20 calendar years old or older and must not have been substantially altered, remodeled or remanufactured from the manufacturers original design."

These tags exempt you from emissions testing, but that doesn't matter because Maryland does not emissions test Diesel Vehicles. I also find the comments of "not having a collapsible steering column", "side impact protection", and "roll over protection" very humorous. These items were never brought up when tagging my 1969 CJ5 Jeep, 1947 CJ2A Jeep, or my 1975 M35A2 of which none came with any of these safety features let alone any emissions control devices.

Now, this will not work for all the HMMWV's comingout of surplus since they have to be 20 calendar years old and they have driving restrictions. The restrictions pretty much get enforced by the local law enforcement by saying they better not catch you driving it every day. BUT, it would be a start if we could work with the State of Maryland to adopt a policy like Kentucky.

 

[kcobean]

I spoke with the VA Dept of Environmental Quality before purchasing my M998. Here is what the VADEQ says about emissions requirements in the state (from their website)

Which vehicles require an emissions inspection?

Certain vehicles require a Virginia Emissions Inspection PASS or WAIVER before DMV can complete the registration process. The requirements are categorized by fuel type,

• Gasoline-powered passenger or property carrying vehicles with a model year that is less than 25 model years old before January 1 of the current calendar year and with a manufacturer's designated gross vehicle weight rating of 10,000 pounds or less
• Diesel-powered passenger or property carrying vehicles with a model year of 1997 or newer and with a manufacturer’s designated gross vehicle weight rating of 8,500 pounds or less

and apply to vehicles that are registered in one of the following localities:

• Counties of: Arlington, Fairfax, Loudoun, Prince William, and Stafford
• Cities of: Alexandria, Fairfax, Falls Church, Manassas, and Manassas Park

So all of our HMMWVs made before 1997 are exempt because they are not OBD-II equipped and thus cannot be tested using the state mandated testing equipment, which no longer uses a gas analyzer, only OBD-II system reporting.

 

[MaverickH1]

I spoke with the VA Dept of Environmental Quality before purchasing my M998. Here is what the VADEQ says about emissions requirements in the state (from their website)

Which vehicles require an emissions inspection?

Certain vehicles require a Virginia Emissions Inspection PASS or WAIVER before DMV can complete the registration process. The requirements are categorized by fuel type,

• Gasoline-powered passenger or property carrying vehicles with a model year that is less than 25 model years old before January 1 of the current calendar year and with a manufacturer's designated gross vehicle weight rating of 10,000 pounds or less
• Diesel-powered passenger or property carrying vehicles with a model year of 1997 or newer and with a manufacturer’s designated gross vehicle weight rating of 8,500 pounds or less

and apply to vehicles that are registered in one of the following localities:

• Counties of: Arlington, Fairfax, Loudoun, Prince William, and Stafford
• Cities of: Alexandria, Fairfax, Falls Church, Manassas, and Manassas Park

So all of our HMMWVs made before 1997 are exempt because they are not OBD-II equipped and thus cannot be tested using the state mandated testing equipment, which no longer uses a gas analyzer, only OBD-II system reporting.

"and with a gvwr of 8500 or less". All HMMWVs are exempt by that statement.

That's how I read it, anyway.

 

[kcobean]

"and with a gvwr of 8500 or less". All HMMWVs are exempt by that statement.

That's how I read it, anyway.

Yeah, I didn't even really consider the GVWR.

 

[alphaseventwo]

I recently bought my '89 m998 from a private party in Illinois- it came with a regular on-road Illinois title- which was really surprising to me because I know first-hand how bad Illinois can be when it comes to citizens and their rights/pursuit of happiness. I live in Indiana, and after having a Vin verification form signed off on by my local police dept. I was able to obtain a transfer of title to an on-road regular Indiana title (Indiana designated the truck a "carry-all") from the Indiana BMV. So, long story short- the M998 is considered "street legal" -and insured- in my state. My question now after reading this thread is- can I expect to be pulled over in Michigan or what? It seems like that memo from the Michigan Dept. of State would challenge my Indiana on-road title if I ever tried to title it in Michigan- but not much else? I'd also add that there are plenty of vintage vehicles out there on the road with regular titles that don't have collapsible steering columns, side impact, or padded dashs. Thanks for all of this info...

 

[riderdan]

I recently bought my '89 m998 from a private party in Illinois- it came with a regular on-road Illinois title- which was really surprising to me because I know first-hand how bad Illinois can be when it comes to citizens and their rights/pursuit of happiness. I live in Indiana, and after having a Vin verification form signed off on by my local police dept. I was able to obtain a transfer of title to an on-road regular Indiana title (Indiana designated the truck a "carry-all") from the Indiana BMV. So, long story short- the M998 is considered "street legal" -and insured- in my state. My question now after reading this thread is- can I expect to be pulled over in Michigan or what? It seems like that memo from the Michigan Dept. of State would challenge my Indiana on-road title if I ever tried to title it in Michigan- but not much else? I'd also add that there are plenty of vintage vehicles out there on the road with regular titles that don't have collapsible steering columns, side impact, or padded dashs. Thanks for all of this info...

This isn't legal advice, but I think it's unlikely that you'd get pulled over just for driving a humvee. Since the truck has a plate, unless you're speeding or something, you're probably OK. Even if you did get pulled over, the truck is titled and registered in another state. My understanding is that the states have agreed to honor each other's licensing schemes--otherwise every car that crossed a state line would get pulled over. Again, this isn't legal advice, but common sense says police have other things to do than look out for some unusual vehicle (with a plate) to pull over.

But as you said, if you tried to register it or have the title transferred, you might be out of luck.

 

[alphaseventwo]

"...unless you're speeding or something." Speeding in a hmmwv- could be another thread for tomorrow... lol.

 

[snowtrac nome]

I recently bought my '89 m998 from a private party in Illinois- it came with a regular on-road Illinois title- which was really surprising to me because I know first-hand how bad Illinois can be when it comes to citizens and their rights/pursuit of happiness. I live in Indiana, and after having a Vin verification form signed off on by my local police dept. I was able to obtain a transfer of title to an on-road regular Indiana title (Indiana designated the truck a "carry-all") from the Indiana BMV. So, long story short- the M998 is considered "street legal" -and insured- in my state. My question now after reading this thread is- can I expect to be pulled over in Michigan or what? It seems like that memo from the Michigan Dept. of State would challenge my Indiana on-road title if I ever tried to title it in Michigan- but not much else? I'd also add that there are plenty of vintage vehicles out there on the road with regular titles that don't have collapsible steering columns, side impact, or padded dashs. Thanks for all of this info...

the reason the older vehicles get away with those safety features not being installed is because they met all safety standard's for the year they ewer manufactured. if one was to reproduce an m37 these days you would have to meet emission standards,' and have the power plant certified for your vehicle, you would also have to have tpms, automatic stability control , abs, supplemental restraints, and crumple zones in the frame. when the hmmwv was fielded in the 80's, vehicles had 3 point harnesses, impact absorbing dashes side impact zones in the body and rear wheel abs. I know most military vehicles have a 3 point harness now but they were not equipped with them until the late 90's they had just lap belts prior.

 

[Awol]

This isn't legal advice, but I think it's unlikely that you'd get pulled over just for driving a humvee. Since the truck has a plate, unless you're speeding or something, you're probably OK. Even if you did get pulled over, the truck is titled and registered in another state. My understanding is that the states have agreed to honor each other's licensing schemes--otherwise every car that crossed a state line would get pulled over. Again, this isn't legal advice, but common sense says police have other things to do than look out for some unusual vehicle (with a plate) to pull over.

But as you said, if you tried to register it or have the title transferred, you might be out of luck.

Hah, as I remember someone on here tried to say that wearing civilian clothes while driving a HMMWV gives the police probable cause to pull you over

 

[riderdan]

Hah, as I remember someone on here tried to say that wearing civilian clothes while driving a HMMWV gives the police probable cause to pull you over

Well, just because someone owns a humvee doesn't mean he's the sharpest stick in the bundle Come to think of it, I'm a perfect example of that.