oscellating multifuel engine

[jimm1009]

I know that I'm going to get Flamed for this because I'm appealing for some quick information from the-more-wise than-me operators of the Deuce multifuel engines.
I was driving into town today and I noticed several delayed excellerations.
When I pushed down for more throttle on the gas pedal it would have a delayed and then slightly surged excelleration and actually seemed to have slightly more power than normal.
I continued my drive into town and about 10 miles from home I pulled up to a stop light and the engine started to stall and almost died.
I caught it with the pedal and kept it going and I pulled off the road into a large parking lot and moved it around there for a few minutes starting and stopping. It seems to want to die out because the idle seems too go to low and then it comes back up to normal idle @ 800 or so RPMs.
I drove it over to the side where some other trucks were parked and ran it for about 15 minutes in park raising the RPM up and letting it fall back to idle. It seemed to be running o.k. but I was afraid to put it back on the road as by then the traffic was really getting bad in town.
I chain locked the steering wheel the good old army way and left it to go back later this evening.
I worked later than I wanted to and am getting ready to go get it with my CUCV and a log chain to get it off into another parking lot if it dies on the way home. I won't attempt to tow it home, just to get it off the road safely, no more than a 1/2 block or so.
I don't have time today to read (flaming to start soon) so I'm appealing for some quick ideas and hope you can help.
I have changed all the filters in the last 300 miles or so.
I have been using waste oil, jet fuel, and diesel mixes for about 500 miles or so.
I have filtered / strained everything through a 5 micron and then a 1 micron filter before dumping it into the tank. Everything except the diesel from the gas station that is.
Let me know what you think. I remember reading a recent post about a "gummy rod" in the injection pump. Could this be one place to start?
Thanks in advance and I'll post my findings of my 10 mile recovery trip in the AM.
Jim

 

[gimpyrobb]

Try the filters, sounds like what happens to mine when time to change them. How much fuel is in the tank? Mine stumbles when the level gets low.

 

[scooter01922]

I'm with gimp.

 

[jimm1009]

reply to questions

I have about 15 gallons of fuel in the tank as we speak.
I'll pull the filters again but they were changed about 300 miles or so back (8 months) so I would think that they should be o.k. especially since I'm putting ultra clean fuel in these days.
I'm open for suggestions and I'll check them all anyway as there is definetly something wrong.
I think that the bottom of my in-tank pump may have come off because I got it down to about 5 gallons of fuel and the pump sounded like it was above the fuel level (dry sounding).
I put fuel in before moving it and that was about 80 miles ago or about two weeks ago.
Jim

 

[scooter01922]

You may be putting in clean fuel now but no telling what went in there before you got it. Lots of skuzz at the bottom of the tank is pretty common it seems.

 

[2Deuces wild]

Dito Filters

 

[jimm1009]

my truck is home

Well I had to wait until 23:00 to go get her. My helper (#3 son) was not back until then.
I started her up and idled for about 5 minutes for warm up. Start was normal and idle was normal.
I drove through town followed by my safety net behind me in the M1009.
No speeds above 40 miles per hour and nor any problems for about 6 or 7 miles.
Just as I needed to go up a hill (Louisiana interstate overpass) she started to get weak and the RPM at 40 MPH would go up and down about 150 to 200 RPMs.
Near the crest of the overpass I had to goose her and then I held it steady at 40 MPH for another two miles at exactly 40 MPH.
It oscellated up and down about 150 RPMs on straight & level paved road and when I pulled in the drive the idle would come down to abouot 600 where it does not want to run well of course.
I let it cool down for 5 minutes playing with the idle. Results were that it would idle at 800 where it normally does and then go down to about 600 and then back up to 800 but it was "straining" to stay alive. It was about 20 to 30 seconds between variations in RPM.
No ususal noices, no fuel leaks, 15 gallons of fuel so the tank pump sounded good after shutting down.
I'm not going to touch her tonight but sure am glad to have it back home close to the barn. Temperature is a "frosty" 69 or 70 degrees since about 20:00 or so.
I'll pull the filters Sunday mid to late afternoon and go from there.
It almost sounds (feels) like a governing problem over fuel but that would still be the injection pump if the filter conditions were normal or other fuel contamination was not present.
Perhaps I have a slug of water too but the filter inspection will tell.
Thanks for your concern and the quick answers tonight. I won't be able to run it tommorrow because I don't have any spares and NAPA is closed unitl Monday AM. Perhaps Oriellys may have a cross but I won't hold my breath for that.
Time for me to start mapping the inside of my eye lids for a few hours.
JIM

 

[scooter01922]

I just had a thought, could be that your unique blend of fuel while totally acceptable has dissolved years of crud deposited in the tank and lines. Now its all floating around and clogging up filters. While you are changing the filters blow out the lines to see if you get much crap.

 

[wreckerman893]

Ditto on the above......the type of fuel you are running can have a cleansing effect on the whole system....the only place for the crapola to go it is into the filters (afterall, that is their intended purpose).....not uncommon to have to change filters several times in a short period until all the gunk is out of the system.
Also....I had the same issue with the bottom of my in tank pump coming off. It is an easy fix...just remove it and fish all the parts out of the bottom of the tank and re-install them.

 

[jimm1009]

fuel problems

Thank you so much for the valuable information guys & gals.
I really really appreciate the help.
Is the bottom of the in-tank pump held in place with clips or friction or perhaps origianlly bonded on with adhesive or solder?
While I'm in there fixing the possible pump coming aprat and cleaning the tank, is there any other problems that could be encountered? I know there is always a chance for rust and real "goo" on the bottom too.
I'm hoping to clean it in place but if the drain plug won't come out then I have to remove the tank obviously. Cleaning solutions recommended? Start off with degreaser and water and then go from there and finish with clean diesel?
I'm assuming you are talking about blowing backwards towards the tank while the filters are removed. Remove the fuel line at the tank so as not to puch crap back into the in-tank pump.
I will be draining the tank and removing the fuel line with pump because I noticed that when I over filled the tank about two months ago there was fuel coming out through the fuse holder area when I pulled the cover off to take a picture of the fuse for someone else.
I picked this truck up from Hattisburg, MS in July of 2008 and have put about 700 miles on it to date, F.Y.I.
Boy it sure would be nice to have a simple fuel starvation problem over a pump going "Tango-Uniform". Much cheaper fix as the pumps seem to be upwards of $750 or so (3/4 of the cost of the average truck). I WILL post my findings as soon as I have some time to get to it. I'm also full filling the parent obligation with 95% of my spare time by helping in the finishing of #2 son's house so if I have spare time, I have to steal it and hide it where no one else knows where it is but me .
Thank You again,
Jimm1009 (Jim)
PS: When the kids grow up and move out you are not really done as they usually multiply and come back!

PS #2: This may be the excuse that I need to install all the spin-on fuel filter kits from a "Certain Someone".

 

[SCSG-G4]

Jim,
A new in-tank pump is $225 plus S&H from the manufacturer. There are numerous threads on it, including the exact part number, the web site, the phone number and extension to call when ordering. Too Easy!

 

[Wolf.Dose]

I had a similar problem 21 years ago. The reason finally was simple: I used decontaminated Diesel fuel (even filtered) which grinded the pump down. I was lucky to get a new one (It was the last awailable pump in Germany).
The worn out pump might supply enough fuel for high idle with no load. Howerver, under load it might not be able to supply a sufficiant amount of fuel and pressure to inject all the neccessary fuel amount into the burning chambers. This requires to my opinion an inspection of the injection pump at a Diesel shop. Get the injectors also checked for propper opening pressure. Else you see a lot of black smoke which simply means waste of fuel. Black smoke is basecally inpropperly burned fuel.
Wolf

 

[scooter01922]

750 $ ?????? huh, what the heck am i missing??? In tanks are 225 NEW from the manufacturer and the IP is a great rally item to pick up, couple hundred for that too. That said, i got a real nice IP here i'll sell ya for 750

 

[jimm1009]

dirty fuel system

The saga continues.

Is this too much solid fuel for the injection pump (See pic #1)?

HA HA

I took the tank off tonight and gave it a preliminary wash and boy did some crude wash out.
Other pics show the findings before the initial wash.
The pump cover (bottom) did not come off as seen and I will need to find something else stronger to wash with.
I had a little greased lightening left so I thought that I would try it.
There is some rust in the tank but very little compared to the age fo the truck. The tank was still the original drab color in the inboard side and bottom so the tank if not original is close to the same age.
The pump works fine but I need suggestions on what to use for the next cleaning cycle. I did use pure hot water after letting the soap soak in for about 5 minutes.
Please suggest away, all are welcome. As a side note, I don't think that the tank will have to be coated as the rust is not very bad at all. What you see is more like other solids that are still attached to the tank. I will be gong to a much more higher quality filter very soon but not immediately.
Thanks in advance.
JIm

 

[Speddmon]

Try going to the parts store or Tractor Supply and get a few (at least 5, maybe 10) gallons of parts washer. Dump that in the tank and find an easy way to shake it up, maybe throw it in the bed of a pick-up and drive around running errands or something. If you've got the time, do that for several days, one day on each side of the tank to make sure you really get her shook up good.

If you could rig up some kind of a shaker to put it on, I've heard of people putting a few handful's of sand in with the cleaners to act as an abrasive to help with the rust.

 

[m35a2cowner]

Rusty tank

I have dropped a piece of chain in a rusty tank before and shook the tank best I could for quite some time. Worked well. Use a shop vac to vacuum out the rust before you use something to wash the rest of the rust out. Pictures look as if the bottom of the the transfer pump could use a bit of rust removal attention.

 

[jimm1009]

fuel contamination

Guys and gals,
The rust is not actually that bad. All that stuff on the bottom of the pump washed off with hot water adn rust would not do that.
I'm puzzled by the content of the material in the tank but there is very little actual rust. The rough appearance is similar to Rhino bed liner material and some comes off and some does not.
I will try the parts cleaner-in-the-pickup idea. I'll need about 5 gallons to cover the whole bottom and up the wall an inch or so but that may just work.
I'm sure there are steam cleaners that could attack some of this too but there is one area that is not accessable due to the baffle and that is the rear 1/3 of the tank as it is installed.
There is no cover or access in this area other than the small cutout in the top and the bottom of the baffle.
Once I get most of the solids out I can treat with a little phosphoric acid to kill the rust that may be uncovered.
A little off topic, but has anyone had success with any other types of high quality fuel filters between the tank and the engine or between the last OEM filter and the injection pump?
Jim

 

[gimpyrobb]

My tank and pump looked like that. Carb cleaner and/or zylene worked good for me. Once you drain it, run some air through it to dry it out. I used the shop vac hooked to the exhaust port.

 

[Trailboss]

If I didn't know better, that looks like pipeline pigging sludge - a mix of parafins, petroleum sludge, rust, scale, and iron sulfides. No telling the fuel quality that went into that tank over the last 40 years in the different areas around the world. Maybe I should check the tanks of my 3 Camp Shelby trucks before I have the same problem.

 

[rchalmers3]

I wonder if the gunk is the remains of an attempted tank seal.

A shop near me used to repair rusty and leaking fuel tanks using a black, thick gummy sealant. The stuff worked well but if you left your tank empty for too long, the stuff would dry out and peel.

I guess if your tank was sealed for reason of a leak, you will find it after it is clean.

Rick