m32825
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Got my outlet plug and cover all sealed up and painted.
-- Carl
-- Carl
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Steel Soldiers now has a few new forums, read more about it at: New Munitions Forums!
Outlet plug for my 803
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uniquify
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Looking good! Don't forget to ground your set.
devilphrog
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Did you get that in use cover locally from Lowe's or something? I see how you made the mounting plate. Regardless, looks great!
m32825
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My plan is to install the same generator inlet on the house and my load test oven so that I can plug my cord into either one, testing the whole path the same way that I use it. The ground wire of the load inlet will be attached to a ground rod, just like inside the main breaker panel at the service entrance. The ground and neutral of the load inlet will be tied together as well, again, just like inside the main breaker panel. See any issues with that?
-- Carl
m32825
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Thanks, man. Here's the backstory for those who are interested...
I started out looking at HD's Reliance 50 amp weatherproof receptacle. My original plan was to attach it right over where the 803 power outlet sock was located. Once I got it home I didn't like how far it was sticking out. I fork the set from that side and wanted something that couldn't accidentally be knocked off.
Once I looked inside the enclosure I realized most of the depth was to accommodate the receptacle body and provide space for wires. Then I realized that HD sold the receptacle separately over on the next aisle and my plan began to form.
The first step was to remove the sock enclosure. I will share my secret for this. Get all the fasteners undone, then wait for your teenager to come by and then utter a lament about how "this thing is never gonna come out". Your teenager will see this as an opportunity to demonstrate superior problem solving and mechanical skills and demand that you "let me try". In less than 60 seconds: housing removed!
I used 1/4" aluminum plate to fill the housing opening. It has a nice solid feel to it, no flex at all when inserting and removing the plug. Once I got the receptacle mounted, wired, and inserted the plug in it, I went down to HD and browsed their selection of "in use, extra duty" covers.
The "in use" part means the cover is designed close with a plug inserted, the "extra duty" part means the cover is designed for use in wet locations. HD had quite a variety, even a couple I did not see online. The one I went with says "TayMac". It is metal and folds down for a slimmer profile when the plug is not inserted. The cover has notches in it that position the cover in both plug states, and there is a ring you can use to lock the cover closed with the plug inside. The cover required some modification. Had to carve some material out of the center to accommodate the receptacle, and a notch in the bottom lip for the plug. I think a number of the covers could work, just be prepared to do a little modification to make things work like you want.
I also modified the plug. It originally had a big handle coming off the back. I cut that off and sanded it down for a lower profile.
-- Carl
devilphrog
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Thanks a bunch, I may have to return my 50a box as it's going to be a trip hazard knowing me
69birdman
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Nice low profile outlet.
I did use the large box, not crazy about how far it sticks out but will work.
I removed that inner sock/box as well, yes tight to remove. Yeah it's nice to be able to plug the stove in for workouts.
Where you at in C fl.? I'm just north of the villages.
I did use the large box, not crazy about how far it sticks out but will work.
I removed that inner sock/box as well, yes tight to remove. Yeah it's nice to be able to plug the stove in for workouts.
Where you at in C fl.? I'm just north of the villages.
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69birdman
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You mean make a cord the same for oven & house ? A 4' stove cord is cheap. I put a twist lock entry at the house. Surely you don't want to make a double male end cord?
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m32825
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I use a cord with the same ends you have in your picture. There will be a twist lock on the house and a twist lock on the stove. Same cord used for either one, but only one at a time. No need to tie/untie neutral and ground on the generator to switch between house and testing. Ground will always come to the generator from the twist lock via the cord. Ground and neutral will always be tied together at one point, on the other side of the twist lock. Looks the same to the generator for both house and testing. I need you guys to point out the glaring flaw in my otherwise brilliant plan...
-- Carl
m32825
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devilphrog
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In this case, where is your ground rod connected to?
69birdman
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I use a cord with the same ends you have in your picture. There will be a twist lock on the house and a twist lock on the stove. Same cord used for either one, but only one at a time. No need to tie/untie neutral and ground on the generator to switch between house and testing. Ground will always come to the generator from the twist lock via the cord. Ground and neutral will always be tied together at one point, on the other side of the twist lock. Looks the same to the generator for both house and testing. I need you guys to point out the glaring flaw in my otherwise brilliant plan...
You are correct with buss bar unbound when plugged into house as it's bonded in panel, but running a stove it needs to be bonded at machine and should have ground rod at machine either way. Twist lock on stove unnecessary, stove cords will plug right into your outlet.
m32825
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Let's approach it a different way, because I may be missing something. When you are testing with the stove, how do you attach your ground to the generator? Do you have the mess with the ground lug inside the generator access panel?
-- Carl
69birdman
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Ground lug no, it's always wired through my outlet & to my trailer then to ground rod. The buss bond bar has to be reconnected when I run stove. It was connected in this photo
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m32825
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I like your setup... now I want a trailer!
The only planned use for my generator is to provide backup power for the house. Everything is set up properly for that.
I need to do periodic stove runs to keep the gremlins at bay. My thought is to replicate the same connections that are used for the house so that I don't have to change the bar back and forth or wrangle with another ground wire. With this approach I make my lug connections once and only have to open the access door to check lug tightness every now and then.
Any drawbacks to this approach are the same ones I'll have when generating for the house. An additional benefit of this approach is that everything is being exercised the same way it will be used.
-- Carl
The only planned use for my generator is to provide backup power for the house. Everything is set up properly for that.
I need to do periodic stove runs to keep the gremlins at bay. My thought is to replicate the same connections that are used for the house so that I don't have to change the bar back and forth or wrangle with another ground wire. With this approach I make my lug connections once and only have to open the access door to check lug tightness every now and then.
Any drawbacks to this approach are the same ones I'll have when generating for the house. An additional benefit of this approach is that everything is being exercised the same way it will be used.
-- Carl
69birdman
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This is a quote from someone here:
The part that this is confused by is the bonding location. You can only have one bonding location in a system. The bonding location is where the neutral and ground are connected. This is why we remove the bonding jumper at the generator if its being connected to a system that already has a ground-neutral bonding point. AKA, your home.
In summary - multiple ground points connected into a common circuit is good. Multiple ground to neutral bonding locations is bad.
When your not running your house there's no bond therefore you must reconnect the buss bar to create a bond. That's the only thing you'd ever change. No wiring change just connect buss bar and plug stove cord into your existing outlet.
Sent you a PM
The part that this is confused by is the bonding location. You can only have one bonding location in a system. The bonding location is where the neutral and ground are connected. This is why we remove the bonding jumper at the generator if its being connected to a system that already has a ground-neutral bonding point. AKA, your home.
In summary - multiple ground points connected into a common circuit is good. Multiple ground to neutral bonding locations is bad.
When your not running your house there's no bond therefore you must reconnect the buss bar to create a bond. That's the only thing you'd ever change. No wiring change just connect buss bar and plug stove cord into your existing outlet.
Sent you a PM
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m32825
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I've got Mike Holt's illustrated guide to the National Electrical Code 2017 and it has a great chapter on grounding and bonding. I've read those 95 pages several times now and highly recommend it as a resource. I'm not an electrician (not even an internet electrician) so do your own research and form your own opinions.
The reason for bonding in one place and before any load is to prevent a parallel path for neutral current traveling back to the source. If you bond it in the wrong place, or multiple places, neutral current will flow on the ground conductor, and then everything tied to the ground conductor becomes a shock hazard.
Another scenario where this principle applies is when you run a feeder from your main breaker panel to another panel. In that case you run two hots, neutral, and ground to the panel. You do not tie the neutral and ground together in the panel being fed, that only happens at the main breaker panel.
My thought for load testing is to bond the neutral and ground just like when you generate with the house: in one place and before any load. On the other side of the twist lock I'd tie neutral to the ground rod and leave the bar off in the generator. The generator will be grounded via the cord, just like it is when generating for the house.
When the generator is grounded via the cord, that connection is keeping all the metal parts of the case near the same potential as earth. Adding more grounds helps reduce the impact of lightning on the unit and attached wiring.
-- Carl
The reason for bonding in one place and before any load is to prevent a parallel path for neutral current traveling back to the source. If you bond it in the wrong place, or multiple places, neutral current will flow on the ground conductor, and then everything tied to the ground conductor becomes a shock hazard.
Another scenario where this principle applies is when you run a feeder from your main breaker panel to another panel. In that case you run two hots, neutral, and ground to the panel. You do not tie the neutral and ground together in the panel being fed, that only happens at the main breaker panel.
My thought for load testing is to bond the neutral and ground just like when you generate with the house: in one place and before any load. On the other side of the twist lock I'd tie neutral to the ground rod and leave the bar off in the generator. The generator will be grounded via the cord, just like it is when generating for the house.
When the generator is grounded via the cord, that connection is keeping all the metal parts of the case near the same potential as earth. Adding more grounds helps reduce the impact of lightning on the unit and attached wiring.
-- Carl
69birdman
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Maybe we better check with dad ,lol, Guyfang... have you been following? Someone ? Am I wrong.
m32825
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No, you're not wrong: your approach is by the book. I'm coloring outside the lines. If there's anything wrong with my approach, I think the same issue exists when we're set up to power a house. That's what I'm trying to sort through.
I've probably spent too much time reading and it is driving me mad!
-- Carl
Zed254
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If your generator is not bonded....as in ready to supply power to your house and utilize the house ground to neutral bond......where will your ground and neutral be bonded when testing with stove? Does your stove have a bond between Neutral and Ground?
Personally, I always drive a ground rod at the generator. The Ground to Neutral bond needs to be somewhere in the system.
Personally, I always drive a ground rod at the generator. The Ground to Neutral bond needs to be somewhere in the system.
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