Overhaul Engine?

[Luke]

When I buy a deuce (might not be for 4 or 5 years) , I plan on buying one of 100dollarman's bobbed deuces for a mud beast. What would you recommend be done to the motor to keep issues from coming up?

I heard somewhere on here "the only kind of deuces are the ones who have had their heads off, and the ones that are about to have them off" I think it was about replacing the head gasket? Is there a list of things that should be done or a "rebuild kit" with new seals, gaskets, hoses etc? I was thinking about trying to drop in a newer motor like a 12v Cummins but my understanding is that with the gear ratios on the Rockwells it probably would not do much for top speed. Anyone bother with replacing internal parts like pistons & rings, bearings etc? It seems like I could spend alot on the thing, and might be interested in trading my motor as a "core" for a rebuilt one for a fee. Hercules' website didn't have any info on whether or not they still dealt these motors.

I just want a very reliable rig that I can count on to get me through the mud or pull a friend out without having something fail and leave me stranded.


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edit;
I am talking about the 6 clyinder multifuel. I think it is the ld465. I don't think I want a turbo -- more moving parts and possibly shorten the motor's lifespan? How much difference in acceleration is there?

 

[poppop]

I have lots of engines here on the farm and see no need to rebuild one unless it is showing signs of a problem. If it sounds good, is strong and does not use a lot of oil it is most likely in good shape. There has been a lot of discussion on the Duece engines and most believe they are good engines and most failures are from abuse. They do not like to be over reved and will come apart if exposed to that very often and for extended periods of time, Keep one serviced well and pay attention to how it sounds so you can tell if something is changing. An engine with a rod hanging out the side probably warned the driver for quite a while before it made its exit. I have done the bottom end on some high hour tractors before just for peace of mind. Of course this is just my opinion and I am sure there are a lot more out there.

 

[FUSIONWELDING]

where can you purchase overhaul kits or gasket kits for a realistic price any good sources 69 herc multi fuel n/t

 

[SCSG-G4]

I'm not sure about realistic prices, considering what a truck currently costs through GL. But if you look for the White 2-155 farm tractor using Google, you will find at least one place that sells almost all the parts, including crankshafts for the LD-465 engine. The pistons and their connecting rods are not the same, but everything else is. A rebuild kit from them currently runs about $2600, hence my comment in the first sentence.

There is at least one other thread that discusses this very subject here on SteelSoldiers, and it did not take me long to find the site referred to above using Google, so I'm not providing a link. Others need to practice their search techniques, not have it handed to them on a silver spoon (although it took me less than 10 minutes to get exactly where the full engine parts list was).

 

[stumps]

Some comments for the new deuce owner (of which I am one):

Pay attention to the engine, change its fluids and filters regularly, avoid un-necessary cold starts, and let her eat! MF engines *love* to eat!

Some would suggest getting the oil analyzed before you change it, as it is cheap to do ($15-20) and will give you some clues about the conditions of the bearings, and the potentially fatal diesel dilution and antifreeze in the oil problems.

In my opinion, the best single thing you can do for your MF engine's longevity is to ditch the cartridge oil filters and buy a set of Jatonka spin on filter adapters. The MF engine, with its original cartridge oil filters, needs 12+ seconds of idling to build up oil pressure to the mains, and the turbo. That 12 seconds puts more wear on your bearings than several hundred hours of hard running! What were they thinking?

It would appear that the most common deadline failure in the MF engine is throwing a rod. Rod failures are almost always the result of abuse. Over revving the engine even once is enough to set the stage for a rod failure. If your governor is set properly, it shouldn't be possible to accidentally over rev the engine with your foot pedal. Standard MF engine diagnostic procedure requires full throttle unloaded engine operation. That leaves engine braking down hills as something to watch. Running out of oil in a deuce is hard to imagine, but it will kill a rod as surely as over revving.

Wonky oil pressure problems that result in very low oil pressure when hot are almost always the result of one of two things: The first is oil dilution, and the second is hammered out bearings. Oil dilution in an MF engine is popularly caused by a leaky Fuel Density Compensator. The military tended to just bypass FDC's that leaked, and optionally spray paint "Diesel Only" on the fuel tank. If yours is already bypassed, don't just plumb it back into the circuit without checking it over really carefully! Oil dilution will very quickly ruin the bearings in any engine.

Your oil level should be 1-1/2 inches above FULL when cold, and FULL 60 seconds after shutting it down hot. That 1-1/2 inches represents all of the oil in the oil filter canisters running back into the engine (hence the comment about the Jatonka spin on adapters.). Imagine your engine's oil pump puffing air through all of the pressure fed bearings for 12 seconds before the oil catches up, and Jatonka's price will start to look like chump change.) 15W40 is the oil she lived on in the service.

5 minutes at idle after starting, and 5 minutes at idle before shutting down is a really good idea. A minute after oil pressure is up, many folks recommend raising the idle to 1000 to 1200 rpm to aid warm up, reduce slobbering, and quicken air up.

More than you ever wanted to know, and I haven't even scratched the surface of what you need to know!

-Chuck

 

[CARNAC]

If you pull the head, replace the freeze plugs while you're at it.

 

[Scarecrow1]

This site provides a wide array of forums of knowledge , but its a safe bet that the people who are new don't know them all , me being one of them . When your new to a site the best way to find out things is to ask someone who would be able to help you find the short cuts . Also first hand knowledge is often humanized and there's nothing like a shared lesson from someone who has done it for real . I know to some it may seem like its a bother to reply , so it's ok for them to simply not reply to a question rather than to insult someone for asking it .

 

[stumps]

Has someone been picking on you Mike?

-Chuck

 

[hndrsonj]

Most of the main vendors have the stuff to rebuild multi's. I think Antelope is about the cheapest with Sarafan right there too. I would not rebuild without a reason. The comment about those with heads off ect.. I say BS, If you treat the truck right and don't beat it, you should have no problems. These trucks are very durable as long as they are taken care of correctly.

 

[Scarecrow1]

No Stumps just like a nice friendly conversation a informative one helps too

 

[stumps]

No Stumps just like a nice friendly conversation a informative one helps too

I was hoping everything was ok, because this thread seemed to be pretty friendly, so far. I get rather long winded when I get in the right mood, but I hoped I wasn't stepping on anyone's toes.

-Chuck

 

[Billy Bobbed]

I dont think it was you stumps.

 

[poppop]

Stumps, I am not sure what is going on here, But I enjoyed the information in your post. I am fairly knowledgeable in diesel engines and MV's but I learned a couple things from you tonight. For one thing I have owned MV's for at least eight years and did not know until a couple months ago the proper way to check the oil. I have been running my trucks low on oil every since I have owned them. The new comers to the site have that very usefull information thanks to your very informative post.

 

[tm america]

multis are great for what they were made to do which is run forever on just about anything you can put in the tank.but rebuilding one is ussually out of the question unless you,re doing a concourse restoration.for the cost of the parts to rebuild one you could swap in a 12v cummins gain around a 100hp and more torque with a lighter engine .you will get better mpg with the cummins and it is a higher revving engine which means higher top speed only thing you loose is being able to run it on anything but i dont think its a bad trade for almost double the hp with a stock cummins and also you will be able to run just under 400hp and still keep it reliable .as far as going with a non turbo multi it will bee slow and you will be harder on the engine than if it were turbo since you will have the pedal to the floor all the time just to get the thing to move

 

[Yohan]

Your oil level should be 1-1/2 inches above FULL when cold, and FULL 60 seconds after shutting it down hot. That 1-1/2 inches represents all of the oil in the oil filter canisters running back into the engine (hence the comment about the Jatonka spin on adapters.). Imagine your engine's oil pump puffing air through all of the pressure fed bearings for 12 seconds before the oil catches up, and Jatonka's price will start to look like chump change.)-Chuck

This may sound like a dumb question, but if the truck has JATonka's filter set-up on it, what should the oil dip stick read when the truck is cold and hot? Thanks for this post!

 

[shootiniron]

Which Cummins engine would you swap into the truck and how much of a PITA is it?

 

[stumps]

This may sound like a dumb question, but if the truck has JATonka's filter set-up on it, what should the oil dip stick read when the truck is cold and hot? Thanks for this post!

John Tenis said in an earlier post that the Full mark is valid hot and cold once the antibackflow filters, and adapters, are installed.

-Chuck

 

[ALFA2]

Thanks, this is very useful info to know and apply, when checking oil level.

ALFA2

 

[Yohan]

Double thanks, Stumps!