Oxy/acet or mig

[emptyhead]

I am in the middle of restoring a halftrack and trying to figure out what I should get. I'll have to do some frame welding done the road but in the mean time have a couple hundred rusty items to remove. I'm on a serious budget right now and want spend right. If the gas unit what small kit would you guys recommend that won't break the bank. Thanks guys

 

[WillWagner]

You'll most likely need both. Gas set up to remve stubborn items, help take dents out and re furbing parts that need straightening/bending. A MIG for bkt and part fab and repair of large items. Get a MIG with gas, not a flux wire.

 

[mdmorgan]

I would buy a used torch, and rent the bottles.

 

[glcaines]

Ditto on both. I prefer an oxy-acetylene set with the medium-size bottles, mounted in a cart. The large bottles are a real pain if you have to move them around. Get a good set. I have an old Harris setup. I also have a Hobart MIG welder as well with an argon bottle - again, cart mounted. Buy good tools and you won't regret it.

 

[rosco]

You will need both! But the first is the torch outfit. You'll probably have both forever. For torches, I'd really try to get the small Victor torch outfit& regulators. You can get them in a small outfit (forgot the name), several gas welding tips, along with a couple of cutting tips. Then you can add more tips to it, as you go along. Its about 2/3's the size of the Victor Journyman torch body, and cutting head, but will do the same job. For instance, a #1 cutting tip, is rated to make the same cut thickness, as the Journyman #1 tip, though the former, is somewhat smaller.

I have been out of the trade too long, to make a recomendation on mig's - there are so many today. Though a machine that has the capacity to use a shielding gas, can also run flux cored wire. It should have the capacity to run .035 solid wire!

 

[Rustygears]

Both, definitely. And don't cheap out, make an investment. What to buy is a Ford vs. Chevy religious argument. I am of the Victor torch, Miller MIG faith. You'll find others of the Hobart and Lincoln faiths as well as others as well. While we defend our religions fiercely, in actuality, they are all quality brands. Avoid the cheapos. Plan to buy a good torch with two stage regulators, check valves and easy to change torch tips. Lease the bottles, don't buy them and don't get those puny kiddie ones. Get a cart or else be prepared to see a guided missile hit you or your neighbor's house (or both). Lastly, take a night class in welding at the local high school or junior college. It may save your life!

On the MIG side, ditto again on getting training. Get a rig that actually uses gas, not just that pre fluxed wire sh*t. Get a rig that has an outlet for a hand spool. You may want it later, especially if you decide to weld aluminum. Consider a MIG rig that can also support a set of stick leads and/or TIG. That would be the best overall investment.

In reality, these days I mostly use my gas rig as a smoke wrench for loosening rusted bolts. Now I do all my cutting with a plasma torch - another worthwhile investment. Most folks do that now as well because it makes such clean cuts and works on any conductive material, not just iron and setup is so simple. I guess we get lazy as we get old. The P-torches are pretty cheap these days. Don't cheap out on it either. I use MIG or TIG for all my fabrication welds and will stick weld occasionally. There is no substitute for stick to hard surface something. Oh - I don't weld for a living (though I could). Plan your investments step by step. If you buy smart, you only buy once.

 

[mudman]

Hey Emptyhead;
Check out either ecowelder or Multipas 3500. Two machines in one..!!!

 

[dozer1]

Again both. 1 accessory I want to recommend is an auto darkening welding helmet for the wire feed. It will instantly make you a better welder.

 

[m16ty]

It's really hard to work on old rusty MVs without a torch. It will pay for itself in short order. Although there are much better options out there, you can weld with a torch also if that's all you've got.

Most the other post say rent bottles. I've found it cheaper in the long run if I own my bottles. Owning the bottles also keeps me from being tied to one gas supplier.

 

[DLJ]

Look at the Cyberweld website, 161.00 for a Victor Firepower and 231.00 for a Victor Performer. Good prices and free shipping.

 

[Rustygears]

Auto dark helmet is a must! I think back to the old head twitch days with the fixed #12 lens helmets and can't believe how far things have come. I remember as a kid having the helmet pivot nuts loosened way out by a 'friend' so there was no friction on the helmet pivot. I was doing an overhead weld and twitched the helmet down to strike my stick and boom! The helmet karate-chopped me right in the adam's apple. So many opportunities for fun practical jokes in the shop.

Schools nowadays would probably expel someone for doing that and classify it as some sort of hate crime. It was a good lesson to always check my gear before striking.

 

[Rustygears]

Most the other post say rent bottles. I've found it cheaper in the long run if I own my bottles. Owning the bottles also keeps me from being tied to one gas supplier.

This is certainly true if you weld a lot and move a lot of gas. Leasing bottles (buy-in and then exchange for fulls) avoids the hydrostatic test hassle and costs that outright bottle ownership faces. This becomes a factor for the sporadic or occasional welder where bottles sit around for a long time. Also, it's a quicker turn to get full bottles and back on the project. You never run out of gas between projects, just in the middle of them.

There was a comment about not getting 'too big' a set of bottles and that is also true.

For Mig gas, I prefer the blends instead of straight Argon as a shielding gas choice. The specialized mig blends can be more economical, by giving good performance at lower flow rates and having reduced spatter and slag.

 

[m16ty]

I own my bottles and the two welding supply places around here exchange my bottles when I need gas. So unless you go years without refilling a bottle, you want have to do a hydro test. I guess a lot depends on how your local welding supply handles exchanges with customer owned bottles.

 

[Heath_h49008]

I only have my little mig and my Ar/CO2 mix tank for steel. But I'm never going to do aluminum with that set-up anyway. My dream shielding gas rig would be a CO2 tank and an Argon and a Helium each with regulator and flow meter so I could mix myself. But I need a TIG or a better MIG with a spoolgun to do aluminum anyway.

You will need to run flux core or switch to stick when you work outdoors unless it's dead calm or you can rig up a good tent around the work.

It all depends on what you need to do. In my opinion, everyone needs a Lincoln "Tombstone" stick, a 110 mig for training and little jobs, and a oxy/acet or oxy/propane torch of some kind or a really good collection of metal saws and grinders, to cut the steel you're working with. (Plasma cutters are another option... just not a cheap one.) They can all be found almost anywhere used. (Get some cheap leathers and a a autodark from Harbor Freight to learn with or hand to shop "Guests" while you work.) I also highly recommend taking a class. You will get to put hands on with a variety of machines, and learn the science behind what you are doing. It takes practice, but it is not just something you "just start doing" and magically become good at. A lot of good people have been killed by pretty welds that didn't hold. It is NOT an art.

 

[Moparjason]

I'd Run propain instead of acetylene its cheaper, easier to get and runs as good. You just need a different tip in your torch. Buy a oxy tank and a five gallon tank of propain. Acetylene regulators screw right on to propain tanks. As for a torch victor is the only way. For migs Lincoln and millers are both great. I have both I prefer lincolns. I would look at Tig welders too. I use my tig all the time it's harder to learn, but way more versital you can weld steel, aluminum, stainless, titanium,magnesium. But alot more exspensive.

 

[Heath_h49008]

You will run the propane at a much higher pressure than the acetylene. The regulators are NOT all compatible.

Some may tolerate it, some may not. Is it worth blowing up your house?

Your mileage may vary...

 

[Josh]

I got lucky and inherited my oxy/acet torch kit from my gramps. Stamped 1942 on everything and is still working perfect to this day. I can't for the life of me remember the brand, but I know it used to be super popular with the railroad for their ruggedness. Considering my regulators are 67 years old, I'd take that claim as true. Ill grab the brand of it Monday for ya if ya want.

 

[Rustygears]

I don't necessarily agree about it having to be dead calm to mig. I had no issue with a 45mph Santa Ana blowing away and doing structural fab using mig in the open. It's all about handling the gun and gas flow. I've never used flux core wire, never will. If I can't do a decent job of thorough prep, I'll run mud rod or 7013 using stick. Mig is all about prep, even more so with aluminum. There's no way to lay a 'stack of dimes' with mig without properly preparing the material and the setup before welding.

On that shopping list, include a pair of mig pliers and a proper ball-type flow gauge.

 

[quickfarms]

Propane oxygen setup works great for heating metal. The pressures are different but not that high, provided you use the correct tips.

I use the flux core wire and the only issue is the splatter. The advantage of the flux core is that you can weld thicker metal than using straight mig.

Buy the biggest name brand unit you can afford and you will not be sorry.

 

[MatthewH]

If/when you buy a torch set, get one that is multi-fuel compatible. That way you can run acytlene or propane. Like any tools, buy something of quality and you won't go wrong. I prefer Victor, but Smith makes good torch sets as well. The last Victor set I bought is multi-fuel and comes with the quick reference books for different setting with different fuels/tips. Saves alot of setup time and a great reference Go medium tanks, as the small portable tanks burn up to fast. I like the 135Oxy, 250Acy tanks for the shop, and a T Oxy/AC5 for the M887.

On a mig welder, my opinion is to buy the biggest you can realistically use. My first one was a Hobart Handler 180, and thought that was all I would ever need. Didn't take long to find out it wasn't enough. Now I'm running a Miller Miller-Matic 212, with the 2 gun setup, regular gun for steel, and a spool gun for alum.

I own all my tanks, torch and welder. That way I can swap them at either supplier, whoever gives the better deal at the time.

Same goes for a Auto-Darkining Helmet. Buy something quality, you only have one set of eyes. I run both, and like the Auto for body work and Tig welding, but prefer the straight shade for heavy mig and stick welding, but everyone has there own peference.

Good luck, let us know what route you end up going