PA registration / title problems...help?

[kovi]

OK. I know this has probably been covered but, I'm not finding a lot regarding PA. I bought a 55 Reo m35a2 8 weeks ago. (mid january). clean title from NJ. Have had nothing but issues trying to get it titled and registered as antique. first time it was sent back and I was told it was too heavy to register as antique. notary sent it back out with 12 pages of spec sheets and (i believe) a lower weight rating. we expect it to get kicked back again... there are a half dozen of these trucks in my area already so, not sure what the problem really is. I know there was someone in MD or DE that could square problems like this away but, I cant find that thread either now. can anyone suggest a notary that has dealt with these in the past or can someone give me insight on how to get around this whole deal? i just wanna be able to enjoy my machine.

 

[ageregunner]

I registered my 1971 M35a2 as a Historical Vehicle, and had no problems. I also believe that PA now has a Historic Military Vehicle category for registering. Paid a one time fee of I believe $75 at time of initial registration. Truck is now registered for entire time I own it.

 

[M.Ellis]

Just registered mine last week as an antique in PA. All they asked me for was a picture of my VIN (I just used the data plate) and so far all is good. Should be getting my plate in the mail this week. Insurance is through StateFarm. Full coverage, with full tort, and insured for 40k. 645.00 a year. Now the insurance did MAKE me get full coverage and full tort because of the size. I should also mention that my truck is bobbed and I used 10,000 lbs as vehicle weight. I also did not use the word military. I just asked to register a 1971 Kaiser jeep 4x4. StateFarm knows what it is as they asked for pictures but my truck does not look like a military truck anymore

 

[kovi]

Just registered mine last week as an antique in PA. All they asked me for was a picture of my VIN (I just used the data plate) and so far all is good. Should be getting my plate in the mail this week. Insurance is through StateFarm. Full coverage, with full tort, and insured for 40k. 645.00 a year. Now the insurance did MAKE me get full coverage and full tort because of the size. I should also mention that my truck is bobbed and I used 10,000 lbs as vehicle weight. I also did not use the word military. I just asked to register a 1971 Kaiser jeep 4x4. StateFarm knows what it is as they asked for pictures but my truck does not look like a military truck anymore

apparently, PA has some super secret playbook of "laws" they use that arent available on the web or to the general public. we were told that you cannot register anything over 10,000 pounds as an antique so, we resubmitted it at a lower weight etc... and title and reg finally showed up.

 

[antennaclimber]

There is no weight restrictions on PA Antique tags. I had a M35A2 and currently have M925A2 with PA Antique tags.

Who told you that you could not go over 10K?


PA Antique Vehicle Fact Sheet

PA HMV Fact Sheet

Historic Plates

You can get plates for an antique Bus or Truck with the MV-11 form.

This information is from Title 75 of the Motor Vehicle Code:

§ 1340. Antique, classic and collectible plates.

(a) General rule.--Upon submission by a vehicle owner of information satisfactory to the department that a motorcycle or motor vehicle is an antique motorcycle or motor vehicle or classic motorcycle or motor vehicle or collectible motorcycle or motor vehicle, accompanied by the appropriate fee, the department may issue special plates for the motorcycle or vehicle. The special plate for antique motor vehicles, except antique motorcycles, shall bear the designation "antique vehicle." The applicant shall provide photographic proof in a manner specified by the department to demonstrate the condition of the motor vehicle. No annual registration fee may be charged for antique, collectible or classic motorcycles or motor vehicles. A holder of the special plates may obtain replacement plates bearing the designation "antique vehicle" upon payment of the appropriate fee.

(a.1) Vintage registration plates.--In lieu of a special plate issued under subsection (a), the owner of an antique or classic motor vehicle may request permission from the department to display a vintage registration plate from the model year of the motor vehicle. The vintage registration plate shall be:

(1) Provided by the motor vehicle owner.

(2) A Pennsylvania registration plate issued between the years 1906 and 1976.

(3) Legible from a reasonable distance.

The applicant shall provide information as the department may require for processing the request and a $75 application fee. The department may deny a request to use a vintage registration plate for cause.

(a.2) Historic military vehicle plates.--In lieu of a special plate issued under subsection (a), the owner of a historic military vehicle may be issued by the department special plates for the vehicle which shall have the same force and effect as antique or classic registration plates. The applicant shall provide information as the department may require for processing the request and a $75 application fee.

(b) Use of plates.--It is unlawful for any person to operate a motorcycle or vehicle with antique, classic, vintage, collectible or historic military vehicle registration plates for general daily transportation. Permitted use shall be limited to participation in club activities, exhibits, tours, parades, occasional transportation and similar uses. Occasional transportation shall mean no more than one day per week.

(c) Definition.--As used in this section, the term "historic military vehicle" means an antique or classic vehicle, including a trailer, that was manufactured for use in any country's military forces and is maintained to represent the vehicle's military design and markings accurately.

(May 30, 1990, P.L.173, No.42, eff. 60 days; Apr. 29, 1994, P.L.148, No.25, eff. 60 days; Dec. 20, 1995, P.L.669, No.75, eff. 120 days; Dec. 1, 2004, P.L.1767, No.228, eff. 60 days; Apr. 12, 2012, P.L.227, No.25, eff. 120 days; July 2, 2014, P.L.988, No.109, eff. 60 days; Oct. 24, 2018, P.L.645, No.91, eff. 120 days)



2018 Amendment. Act 91 amended subsec. (b) and added subsecs. (a.2) and (c).

2014 Amendment. Act 109 amended subsec. (a.1)(2).

Cross References. Section 1340 is referred to in sections 102, 1786, 4703 of this title.

§ 1340.1. Street rod plate.

Upon submission by a vehicle owner of information satisfactory to the department that a motor vehicle is a street rod, accompanied by the appropriate fee, the department shall issue special plates for the vehicle which shall have the same force and effect as regular registration plates. The applicant shall comply with all laws and regulations pertaining to registration including the payment of any additional fees.

(July 10, 1981, P.L.250, No.82, eff. imd.)




And yes, you can drive them at night with antique tags. So long as the vehicle meets the current PA lighting standards.

§ 4303. General lighting requirements.

(a) Head lamps.--Every vehicle, except trailers, operated on a highway shall be equipped with a head lamp system in conformance with regulations of the department. The regulations shall not prohibit a bus from being equipped with devices used to carry pedalcycles on the front of the bus.

(b) Rear lighting.--Every vehicle operated on a highway shall be equipped with a rear lighting system including, but not limited to, rear lamps, rear reflectors, stop lamps and license plate light, in conformance with regulations of the department. If a vehicle is equipped with a centrally mounted rear stop light, a decal or overlay may be affixed to the centrally mounted rear stop light if the decal or overlay meets all applicable State and Federal regulations.

(c) Turn signals and hazard warning lights.--Every motor vehicle, except motorcycles and pedalcycles, and every trailer operated on a highway shall be equipped with a system of turn signal lights and hazard warning lights in conformance with regulations of the department.

(d) Identification, clearance and side marker lights.--Every motor vehicle, trailer and combination operated on a highway shall be equipped with a system of lights which may include retroreflective reflectors, identification, clearance and side marker lights in conformance with regulations of the department.

(e) Equipment exempted by regulation.--Antique motor vehicles, animal-drawn vehicles, implements of husbandry, commercial implements of husbandry and special mobile equipment, if operated exclusively between the hours of sunrise and sunset and not during periods of reduced visibility or insufficient illumination, may be exempted from certain lighting equipment requirements of this part by regulations of the department.

 

[jcappeljr]

OK. I know this has probably been covered but, I'm not finding a lot regarding PA. I bought a 55 Reo m35a2 8 weeks ago. (mid january). clean title from NJ. Have had nothing but issues trying to get it titled and registered as antique. first time it was sent back and I was told it was too heavy to register as antique. notary sent it back out with 12 pages of spec sheets and (i believe) a lower weight rating. we expect it to get kicked back again... there are a half dozen of these trucks in my area already so, not sure what the problem really is. I know there was someone in MD or DE that could square problems like this away but, I cant find that thread either now. can anyone suggest a notary that has dealt with these in the past or can someone give me insight on how to get around this whole deal? i just wanna be able to enjoy my machine.

Go to a different tag place,My tag n title girl has done over 200 mv titles,She just tagged 2 last week with antique tags.

 

[BKubu]

I agree with John.

 

[kovi]

There is no weight restrictions on PA Antique tags. I had a M35A2 and currently have M925A2 with PA Antique tags.

Who told you that you could not go over 10K?


PA Antique Vehicle Fact Sheet

PA HMV Fact Sheet

Historic Plates

You can get plates for an antique Bus or Truck with the MV-11 form.

This information is from Title 75 of the Motor Vehicle Code:

§ 1340. Antique, classic and collectible plates.

(a) General rule.--Upon submission by a vehicle owner of information satisfactory to the department that a motorcycle or motor vehicle is an antique motorcycle or motor vehicle or classic motorcycle or motor vehicle or collectible motorcycle or motor vehicle, accompanied by the appropriate fee, the department may issue special plates for the motorcycle or vehicle. The special plate for antique motor vehicles, except antique motorcycles, shall bear the designation "antique vehicle." The applicant shall provide photographic proof in a manner specified by the department to demonstrate the condition of the motor vehicle. No annual registration fee may be charged for antique, collectible or classic motorcycles or motor vehicles. A holder of the special plates may obtain replacement plates bearing the designation "antique vehicle" upon payment of the appropriate fee.

(a.1) Vintage registration plates.--In lieu of a special plate issued under subsection (a), the owner of an antique or classic motor vehicle may request permission from the department to display a vintage registration plate from the model year of the motor vehicle. The vintage registration plate shall be:

(1) Provided by the motor vehicle owner.

(2) A Pennsylvania registration plate issued between the years 1906 and 1976.

(3) Legible from a reasonable distance.

The applicant shall provide information as the department may require for processing the request and a $75 application fee. The department may deny a request to use a vintage registration plate for cause.

(a.2) Historic military vehicle plates.--In lieu of a special plate issued under subsection (a), the owner of a historic military vehicle may be issued by the department special plates for the vehicle which shall have the same force and effect as antique or classic registration plates. The applicant shall provide information as the department may require for processing the request and a $75 application fee.

(b) Use of plates.--It is unlawful for any person to operate a motorcycle or vehicle with antique, classic, vintage, collectible or historic military vehicle registration plates for general daily transportation. Permitted use shall be limited to participation in club activities, exhibits, tours, parades, occasional transportation and similar uses. Occasional transportation shall mean no more than one day per week.

(c) Definition.--As used in this section, the term "historic military vehicle" means an antique or classic vehicle, including a trailer, that was manufactured for use in any country's military forces and is maintained to represent the vehicle's military design and markings accurately.

(May 30, 1990, P.L.173, No.42, eff. 60 days; Apr. 29, 1994, P.L.148, No.25, eff. 60 days; Dec. 20, 1995, P.L.669, No.75, eff. 120 days; Dec. 1, 2004, P.L.1767, No.228, eff. 60 days; Apr. 12, 2012, P.L.227, No.25, eff. 120 days; July 2, 2014, P.L.988, No.109, eff. 60 days; Oct. 24, 2018, P.L.645, No.91, eff. 120 days)



2018 Amendment. Act 91 amended subsec. (b) and added subsecs. (a.2) and (c).

2014 Amendment. Act 109 amended subsec. (a.1)(2).

Cross References. Section 1340 is referred to in sections 102, 1786, 4703 of this title.

§ 1340.1. Street rod plate.

Upon submission by a vehicle owner of information satisfactory to the department that a motor vehicle is a street rod, accompanied by the appropriate fee, the department shall issue special plates for the vehicle which shall have the same force and effect as regular registration plates. The applicant shall comply with all laws and regulations pertaining to registration including the payment of any additional fees.

(July 10, 1981, P.L.250, No.82, eff. imd.)




And yes, you can drive them at night with antique tags. So long as the vehicle meets the current PA lighting standards.

§ 4303. General lighting requirements.

(a) Head lamps.--Every vehicle, except trailers, operated on a highway shall be equipped with a head lamp system in conformance with regulations of the department. The regulations shall not prohibit a bus from being equipped with devices used to carry pedalcycles on the front of the bus.

(b) Rear lighting.--Every vehicle operated on a highway shall be equipped with a rear lighting system including, but not limited to, rear lamps, rear reflectors, stop lamps and license plate light, in conformance with regulations of the department. If a vehicle is equipped with a centrally mounted rear stop light, a decal or overlay may be affixed to the centrally mounted rear stop light if the decal or overlay meets all applicable State and Federal regulations.

(c) Turn signals and hazard warning lights.--Every motor vehicle, except motorcycles and pedalcycles, and every trailer operated on a highway shall be equipped with a system of turn signal lights and hazard warning lights in conformance with regulations of the department.

(d) Identification, clearance and side marker lights.--Every motor vehicle, trailer and combination operated on a highway shall be equipped with a system of lights which may include retroreflective reflectors, identification, clearance and side marker lights in conformance with regulations of the department.

(e) Equipment exempted by regulation.--Antique motor vehicles, animal-drawn vehicles, implements of husbandry, commercial implements of husbandry and special mobile equipment, if operated exclusively between the hours of sunrise and sunset and not during periods of reduced visibility or insufficient illumination, may be exempted from certain lighting equipment requirements of this part by regulations of the department.

I have everything you have quoted (thank yuou for putting in the effort. its much appreciated). I was told by the manager of the title / tag/ licensing dept in Harrisburg (on the telephone) that antique title cannot be issued for vehicles over 10k . when i asked about antique tractor trailer trucks, I got mumbling and other whatnot. so... your guess is as good as mine? is it a bunch of crybaby liberals that think we should not own these trucks or is there statute somewhere? what I do know is that when i reduced the weight to 10k, it went through the process...

 

[bprzyw]

I had mine registered, but that was 25 years ago. 1970 M35A2, no issues at all.
Hope you can resolve this issue.

 

[rockertype]

I'd say antennaclimber definitely nailed it!

 

[98G]

I have everything you have quoted (thank yuou for putting in the effort. its much appreciated). I was told by the manager of the title / tag/ licensing dept in Harrisburg (on the telephone) that antique title cannot be issued for vehicles over 10k . when i asked about antique tractor trailer trucks, I got mumbling and other whatnot. so... your guess is as good as mine? is it a bunch of crybaby liberals that think we should not own these trucks or is there statute somewhere? what I do know is that when i reduced the weight to 10k, it went through the process...

Your truck weighs ~14k empty. Registering it for 10k puts you in violation every time you drive it. The first cop that thinks you shouldn't be allowed to own one can use this as an excuse to impound it.

The potential for "fraudulent completion of DMV apps" is also there..

Neither of these things is likely. Both are possibilities.

DMVs are just painful to interact with.

 

[Mullaney]

Your truck weighs ~14k empty. Registering it for 10k puts you in violation every time you drive it. The first cop that thinks you shouldn't be allowed to own one can use this as an excuse to impound it.

The potential for "fraudulent completion of DMV apps" is also there..

Neither of these things is likely. Both are possibilities.

DMVs are just painful to interact with.

.
@98G is "right on the money...

Simply stated @kovi : Don't give them a reason...

 

[Ray Cook]

I used to work at a Ford dealer. Whenever they got in a batch of used cars from out of state, they'd send me to the bureau building in Harrisburg, and in 8-10 hours, I'd be back with fresh PA titles for the cars. Not sure where Bath, PA is, but in the future it might be worth the trip to Harrisburg as they're much more helpful face-to-face. (at least they were) Glad you got it resolved. Harrisburg is a pain in the @#$!

Ray Apollo, PA

 

[antennaclimber]

I agree with Ray. Dealing with the call center is useless. Every time I called them, they said its all good, only to get a rejection letter a few days later.

Recently I had an issue with getting a new custom Historical Military Vehicle tag for my M1008.
A trip to Harrisburg and the issue was solved. The lady I was assigned to knew exactly how to get a Historical tag for my M1008. She found that my application was being entered incorrectly causing it to be rejected. This very kind lady really was top notch at her job! She took the time to walk to another part of the building, find out what the issue was, resolved it and returned back to her window in less than 15 minutes.
All in all, I spent 40 min at PennDOT. 25 min waiting for an open window and 15 minutes at the window.

 

[Mullaney]

I agree with Ray. Dealing with the call center is useless. Every time I called them, they said its all good, only to get a rejection letter a few days later.

Recently I had an issue with getting a new custom Historical Military Vehicle tag for my M1008.
A trip to Harrisburg and the issue was solved. The lady is was assigned to knew exactly how to get a Historical tag for my M1008. She found that my application was being entered incorrectly causing it to be rejected. This very kind lady really was top notch at her job! She took the time to walk to another part of the building, find out what the issue was, resolved it and returned back to her window in less than 15 minutes.
All in all, I spent 40 min at PennDOT. 25 min waiting for an open window and 15 minutes at the window.

.
Like every other business or government agency... There are a few people who know what to do and why - and the rest of them -are just a bunch of MORONS who don't know how and worst of all Don't Care

Glad that you got yours done!

 

[Buck Wampum]

Reviving an old thread to keep my fellow PA MV enthusiasts updated on my learnings, shared below:

1. There is no 10,000 lb. limit for an antique registration. My armored car is 16,000 lbs and has a PA Historic Military Vehicle (HMV) registration, which is a subcategory of an Antique registration
2. You can read my tale of woe trying to get said armored car registered, here: https://www.steelsoldiers.com/threads/pennsylvania-to-get-hmv-plates.182966/post-2362520
3. PA has since updated the HMV paperwork to tell you that you need to dual register the vehicle, first as an Antique and then as a HMV, so there is hope for the cesspit that is PennDOT
4. Since you need to "dual register" the vehicle, I'd recommend getting the Antique plate first and then a few months later, register it as a HMV. You'll get to keep your antique plate forever and you can reuse it for your next vehicle registration
5. Finally, I learned that my local State Representative (the Honorable Craig Staats) has a hotline you can call and his office will help you resolve PennDOT issues. I wasted hours on the phone because I didn't know this.

 

[Buck Wampum]

I agree with Ray. Dealing with the call center is useless. Every time I called them, they said its all good, only to get a rejection letter a few days later.

Recently I had an issue with getting a new custom Historical Military Vehicle tag for my M1008.
A trip to Harrisburg and the issue was solved. The lady I was assigned to knew exactly how to get a Historical tag for my M1008. She found that my application was being entered incorrectly causing it to be rejected. This very kind lady really was top notch at her job! She took the time to walk to another part of the building, find out what the issue was, resolved it and returned back to her window in less than 15 minutes.
All in all, I spent 40 min at PennDOT. 25 min waiting for an open window and 15 minutes at the window.

This was a very interesting post, as I struggled mightily to get a HMV plate in 2Q 2021, see: https://www.steelsoldiers.com/threads/pennsylvania-to-get-hmv-plates.182966/post-2362520

I would gladly drive to Harrisburg to get it done in person. Can you let me know where exactly you went to get face-to-face service in Harrisburg? I've always just used a notary and have never stepped foot in a PennDOT facility, aside from getting my driver's license renewed. I always thought you could not go to Harrisburg, but always had to use only a notary, so I'm quite interested in how you did this.

Do you have to submit your application through a notary, get rejected and then you can go face-to-face?

I ask because I will be registering another armored car this coming spring. My plan is to register it using an antique plate I already possess, so I can walk out the door with my temporary reg and be on the road the same day. I'll subsequently register for a historic mil vehicle plate over the winter, when the vehicle is off the road anyhow.

However, if I can go to Harrisburg and do it live, I'll certainly do that. I was not aware that any historic mil vehicle plates could be had "over the counter".

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[antennaclimber]

Go to Harrisburg and use the walk in service center. I was able to resolve my Historic MV tag issue in a short time.
The person I dealt with really knew her job and exactly how to correct the issue.
Penn DOT Locations

1. 
   Harrisburg Riverfront Office Center
   Address: 1101 S. Front St., Harrisburg, PA 17104 (13th Street exit off I-83 or Cameron Street exit off I-81)
   Hours:
   
   Motor Vehicle Services Only:
   Monday: 7:30 a.m.-4:30 p.m.
   Tuesday: 7:30 a.m.-4:30 p.m.
   Wednesday: 7:30 a.m.-4:30 p.m.
   Thursday: 7:30 a.m.-4:30 p.m.
   Friday: 7:30 a.m.-4:30 p.m.
   Saturday: 7:30 a.m.-12:00 p.m.
   Sunday: Closed