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Paint Woes / price check

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Hello everyone! I know a lot of us stick with our OD paints on our CUCVs, however, I recently met up with a friend of mine that wanted to get his CUCV repainted. The body is pretty straight, just about no rust to speak of, other than 1 or 2 bubbles on the body, so all around is in great shape. He mentioned to me he wanted to go to a civvy paint style (old 2 tone) and have it done right, inner door jams and all. After going to ONLY the local MAACO's, he got back with quotes that ranged from $4000-$8000 for 2 stage paint, and whatever little body work was needed to straighten things out a little, and to strip it. Does that sound ridiculous? Anyone out there heard of anything like this?
 

NDT

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That is them telling him "we don't want to mess with your old truck, that is not our bread and butter, we can fix 10 cars in the time it takes to prep yours and make more money".
 

doghead

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It takes a lot of time to sand the carc(and fill it) smooth too be able to paint a nice smooth gloss paint job.

I'd say half that price would be reasonable.

A friend of mine that does professional pain just did a 1009 for a guy and he said it took forever to prep and he would never do one again.
 

hndrsonj

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I would say that is totally reasonable. Also, I would never go to MAACO.
 

porkysplace

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I would say that is totally reasonable. Also, I would never go to MAACO.
I don't think Earl Scheib still has the $19.95 special .
Their old slogan; "I'm Earl Scheib, and I'll paint any car, any color for $19.95. No ups, no extras." This campaign and slogan was maintained until Earl died.

To do a good color change you need to disassemble it to do it.
 
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dependable

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An in between route I do these days is a primer sealer after sanding off any 3 D paint. If it was not painted with a broom by some NG unit, you may not need to sand at all. The CARC absorbs the primer sealer very well and there is good adhesion.

After the primer-sealer (ask for the equivalant of Dupont Velva Seal) paint with a kicked(with catalyst) enamel like Centari. Follow the primer directions and shoot finish coat when primer is almost still tacky. Looks good going down the road and is durable, but not fancy. Holds up well.

Picture below is not over CARC, but is of work grade finish that is as much as I need to do. If you're not driving in woods, and want to go to car shows, no doubt you will want to do better.
 

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ZiggyO

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I cannot speak for maaco (which is a joke in the collision repair industry), but I can tell you that for a professional paint job, that is not out of line----- in my family's shop, we recently did a full repaint of a 2001 dodge Dakota for a family that wanted it redone for sentimental reasons-- for reference, our shop uses CCC One estimating software, and we use akzo nobel paints. The job came in at just under $11k-- this included full blocking of the body, rework of the dented passenger side door, and R/I of all trim. The point is not that they spent way too much for a vehicle that will never sell for anywhere near that, but that they wanted it done right-- and right equates to time, and time ultimately equates to money. This does not even take into account that automotive grade paints are pricey.

Personally, if I wanted to change the color of a CUCV, I would go get a single stage industrial enamel in high gloss, use a high fill primer, block, mask and spray-- it will look ok from 15 feet off-- even there though, it will still cost some money to do as there is time involved in sanding and masking......
 

clinto

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Ok...... so........................

First off, you'll have to be talking to a "specialty" kind of a shop for them to even want to do it. Collision type shops do great work, but they are an assembly line business: Their bread and butter is get the new Civic or Suburban in that's been crunched, order the readily available crash parts that will there the next day, fix the damage, swap the parts, spray it and get it out of there. That's how they make money and they can't make money on stuff like your CUCV because it's outside of their comfort zone/wheelhouse/etc. So it's possible the price you were quoted was the "we don't want to do this job, so we're gonna' price it high" price.

However, that being said.....................

My Father has a '68 Chevelle and it's really nice. Gorgeous body with very minimal issues. Corrosion above the wheel lips on the quarters, bottom of the fenders need patches. That's about it. We have a friend who does really high end metalwork on antiques-stuff like Mercedes Gullwings, Porsche 356s, Plymouth Superbirds, etc. He is going to blast the car and put quarters on it and have it 100% ready for the paint shop.

I went around to all the people I know in the antique car industry and got referrals for about half a dozen shops and I went and visited them. I explained that I was in the industry and that when I say the body they're going to get it going to be perfect and ready for block sanding, I meant it. There are a lot of home hobbyists who think their vehicle is a lot better than it really is.

Out of the 6 shops I visited, I found 3 willing to do it and of those 3, 2 I felt comfortable with.

The car will be in primer, with the body completely disassembled, on a rotisserie. So the painters can immediately work on it. No disassembly or metalwork required. It is a very simple car: It is not a SS, so it doesn't have black rear filler panel or lower body paint. It doesn't have any striped or a vinyl top. Since it's a GM car, it's a simple semi gloss black on the bottom of the car, the firewall, etc. The trunk is splatter paint. They'll be painting the fenders, hood, inner fenders, radiator core support and wheels separate from the car. I asked that the paint shop sand and buff the paint. The doors will already be hung and adjusted (metal shop is rebuilding hinges and hanging doors).

Every quote I got was $8-10K. That is for high end paint and primer, PPG. The color isn't anything special (meaning it's not expensive).

Keep in mind this is for a vehicle that's coming to them already stripped to the bare body, already media blasted, all the metalwork done and in the primer of their choosing. They can receive the car and begin block sanding it that day. And everyone I've spoken with said that price is what could be expected.

I do some paint work and if I had to prep it, I would not touch a CUCV for less than $7500-10K. And I'll tell you why.

The only way I'd do it would be to have the whole truck media blasted, which means a lot of disassembly and prep work for the blasting and a lot of cleanup afterwards. Like everyone said, CARC is hard to strip. Once it was stripped and cleaned, then do any necessary metalwork. Then prime it, then depending how smooth you want it, block it, then the color (and all the tape work for the 2 colors), then the clear, then sanding and buffing it. Then reassembly. I'll bet my cost on the stripping alone would be $2500.

That is an astonishing amount of work. Think about all the tape work for the engine compartment-you have to shoot the inside of the front fenders. They're body color to where they meet the inner fenders. With all the work on the front end, you'd probably be better off just pulling the front clip off and panel painting it. That will also give the chance to detail the frame, wheelhouses, etc.

I can paint a full size vehicle in a day, a weekend if it has a clear coat. But the work that goes in before and after? Months.

Chevelle:

20140712_110825.jpg20140712_110841.jpg20151001_103221.jpg20151001_124426.jpg20161004_121728.jpg20161004_121734.jpg20161004_121737.jpg20161004_121757.jpg20161004_121750.jpg20161004_121742.jpg20161004_121808.jpg
 

fitz

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$4k-$8k for a full repaint seems fair to me.
Don't get me wrong, when my M1028 needs paint I'm going to use Behr paint from home depot. That will suit my needs just fine.
Quality paint does not come cheap.
My civy 81 Chevy 8' stepside has DuPont basecoat/clear coat paint. The paint, reducer, and primmer was $1k. Like I said, good paint is not cheap.
One of the reasons I got involved with CUCV's over the civy GM trucks was that when it comes time to paint them, you don't have to spend a small fortune.
 

cucvrus

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1984 CUCV M1009 The Mule 001.jpg012 (2).jpgTo take apart and paint a truck from camouflage to tan. I would not even begin to know what to charge. I done everything. I rebuilt the engine, transmission, transfer case, all seals and brakes. New fenders hood , radiator and all new paint. I put rebuilt starter, alternators, new batteries, injection pump, and I did not skimp on one thing. I had hundreds of hours cleaning sanding fixing and painting this M1009. I would never be able to get what I put in it. it is 100% road ready. Someone wants to buy it every month. Say a price and they shy away. Heck I could not buy a Honda 4 X 4 4 wheeler for what I could sell this for. So I just keep playing and going fishing with it. I am thinking about a new color change next year. I have a few ideas in mind. But $5000. don't take long to spend if you pay someone to do a good job. And then you just use it and watch it go back again. Never let it go back too far is the key. Fix everything as it breaks and catch rust quickly. It will look good for years. No rattle can paint jobs.
 

corvette9

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Iv been a shop owner for over 30 years. In my experience a few bubbles in the body means it's rotted. Always turns out to be much more than you think once you get into it. Also, to dismantle the whole truck for a complete color change alone is many hours of work. Body, doors fenders hood, all the int.need to come apart. Just trying to sand CARC is a nightmare and if it ever had the nice brush job, 80 grit on a DA dose nothing. So the amounts the OP stated is very fair. I would not take a job like that into my shop at all. My brother and I both have CUCV trucks. Both took many hours to clean them up and paint them. His is just green. Mine is camo.
 

dependable

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I agree that to do a professional, automotive grade paint job on a CARC painted CUCV would cost thousands. However, I am not sure why most folks insist the CARC must be sanded off. Perhaps the ones that were quickly painted tan before going to Kuwait, and for sure the ones where the woodland cammo was applied with broom. But many of the woodland and solid green CUCVs I've seen were sprayed reasonably well.

While normally one would sand any enamel before repainting, at the very least to de glaze, I have found the CARC is so absorbent, and the adhesion of the primer sealer so good, that no sanding is necessary.

I worked in a paint/collision shop decades ago, and have painted a few dozen vehicles of my own over the years, and many products I was formally trained to use to use are getting hard to get, so I am no expert, but am happy with my middle of the road approach. A one part industrial enamel is also a good way to go, but I like the tougher coat of the Centari, and will use it until it is phased out, which I hear might be soon. The last couple of CARC painted trucks I shot, would have left in original military paint, but the paint was beginning to surface rust, and I wanted to seal it up with a good enamel. I still have a few in cammo, which I will leave until that paint starts to fail.
 

cucvrus

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I agree that to do a professional, automotive grade paint job on a CARC painted CUCV would cost thousands. However, I am not sure why most folks insist the CARC must be sanded off.
Most times the CARC was applied over a rusted truck that was not prepped or sealed properly. Also many paint jobs I encountered were done with MEK thinner and the CARC boiled the sealer thru to the bare metal and rust is lurking below the entire surface. It is also over sprayed and as Corvette9 mentioned I have used 36 grit discs and hours of time to get it thru that 80 grit will sand. The life expectancy of an 80 grit DA disc is less then a minute when sanding CARC. Aircraft stripper will barely effect the surface and most surfaces are so wavy and body filled that you grind thru the CARC just to find a puss infected panel. I have done a few that if they were not rusty I just done what I could and sanded it smooth as I could get it. About 180 grit is as far as I go. Anyone that wet sands/block sands a CUCV with the original panels on it has a few screws loose. I fixed these when they were new and the brown and black edges alone were near impossible to feather in. I roughed it up and painted the same camouflage pattern on them. These old trucks do not have the fit and finish that we see in the newer trucks. They were just that trucks. Now we use trucks as daily transportation. And the prices of the new trucks demand the fit and finish that you get on them. And it is pretty good. I see new vehicles everyday. They are well built and are much better fit/finish then the older trucks were. Longevity is yet to be decided. I see fewer and fewer old 80's 90's trucks on the road every year. I think it is a never ending cycle to fix and drive a CUCV. The rust is never sleeping and the road salts are more aggressive then ever. I have one M1009 for 20 years in my barn. It has a bit of rust inside at the kick panels. Nothing else. I should have removed the rubber mat 20 years ago. But I wanted to keep it original. it also will need a complete paint job. I have used alkyd enamel with great results. CARC very fussy and hazardous. Very expensive. But it does look the best when done right. have a great day. I hope to paint a couple CUCV's this season. I will post as I progress.
 

dependable

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Most times the CARC was applied over a rusted truck that was not prepped or sealed properly.
Sounds like I may have ended up with some better trucks to start with, my luck, or where & when I bought them.

Since CARC is so hard to sand as you say, or at least it cloggs the paper fast, is why I am a proponent of hitting it with a professional grade primer sealer.

Not that it really matters, just saying how I like to paint my trucks. Good luck and happy painting. Remember if you try this at home, use a good respirator with new cartridges, clean up, & keep the innocents out of the work area.

Happy Friday.
 

cucvrus

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Most of the CUCV's I painted were never painted before. The rust was under the factory paint. The ones that were painted were touched up with brushes and had thick paint on them. The ones that were overall painted were heavily coated and it looked like they ran them tru a truck paint wash system. Everything was painted. I painted 50+ in the past 20 years. This one was as I bought it from a local municipal police department.CUCV Lock out 004.jpgThis is how it looked after being refurbished.
 

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cucvrus

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Anybody know a trick to get stale sun burnt tape off of a rubber window seal? I have a friend that called me over. He painted a Blazer top and left the tape on over the winter. The side that was in the dark came right off. The side that the sun hit all winter. Not so good. The tape ain't coming off very easy. I told him I would ask here. i told him back in October not to let the tape on. He said it is the good 3M tape not the cheap stuff. Oh well there you have it. It really sticks now. I suggested cutting the weather strip and scrapping it. Anybody? Lacquer thinner. Very risky Goof Off risky. Anybody???
 
231
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Mount Laurel NJ
Hey cucvrus, I actually did something like this before, involving that mess on rubber before... I used rubbing alcohol, but I think it was only the 70% type, and worked it in with a paper towel/shop towel. It will eat at the glue, and then once its off, put some armor all on the rubber and youll be good to go, no harm done! I guess you could use denatured, but it's a bit strong!
 

rustystud

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Anybody know a trick to get stale sun burnt tape off of a rubber window seal? I have a friend that called me over. He painted a Blazer top and left the tape on over the winter. The side that was in the dark came right off. The side that the sun hit all winter. Not so good. The tape ain't coming off very easy. I told him I would ask here. i told him back in October not to let the tape on. He said it is the good 3M tape not the cheap stuff. Oh well there you have it. It really sticks now. I suggested cutting the weather strip and scrapping it. Anybody? Lacquer thinner. Very risky Goof Off risky. Anybody???

I've used "MEK" to clean the rubber trim, but you need to be careful, and quickly use some rubber conditioner like "Armor All" before the rubber gets damaged.
 
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