Perfect Parade Day - Traffic Stop - Long

[Melvinitis]

In WI to get the collector plates you can not haul more than 500 lbs unless it is part of a parade or other display. I am thinking of getting collectors for my CUCV pickup, but with those limits, I will not beable to even haul a snowmobile!

 

[SterlingDevelop]

" Papers...I need to see your papers!!!! Schnell!!"

The no pictures or video thing really gets me.
They have no right to prevent me, but I have every right to take pics or video.
Just makes you wonder why they don't want anything recorded. (I'm writin' you a ticket for this broken tail light, boy.........smash!!!)

Our civil employees (and the rest of us for that matter) should act as though everything they do will end up on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfVZjbyzFGQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GgWrV8TcUc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGvgy8lbPO0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxgNKNEtk18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b77i9orw7CU

etc, etc......ad nauseum.......

 

[BillIdaho]

Like I said earlier, I am a former Illinois resident, a current Idaho resident, being a cop and MV collector. I am somewhat versed on Illinois law and pretty well versed on Idaho law.
I simply would like to know under what law, county/city ordinace, local statute would you have been violating in regards to the "no photos" part of this?
Please don't judge all cops by what happened to you. You MIGHT have some things they would have to articulate about why they did what they did. You MIGHT have some legitimate complaints about how you were treated.
BUT, like mentioned before, there would be a right and a wrong way to further this. If you decide to ask questions about what took place, constructively ask them. If you go into this with a head-hunting attitude...I can almost promise you will create more hassles than you are trying to solve.
One way might be to write IN MINUTE DETAIL, the entire ordeal.( It should be pages long!) Then call and pre-arrange a meeting with the biggest wheel you can find. The bigger the better. Then, with photos of your truck (including the data plate), go over the entire stop. At every action the police did, have the big-wheels show you the law that allowed them to do it. Every action. They will have an SOP, or a P&P manual that explains what actions will be taken by them for every situation. Ask them to explain EVERY action the police took. Ask to see it in writing-such as the "no-photos" thing.
Most importantly.....choose your battles. The press is really liberal, so I would count on them to paint any type of objective account of this. And, they surely won't convinve enough of the public to change anything. My $.02.

 

[tamangel]

plain view searches don't need consent..anything you can see thru the windows or standing on the step, no consent necessary. Night time still ok w/ flashlight. Closed compartments, yes, need consent... Frisk, yes for officer safety (officer determins).. As far as length of time.. Usually there is a time limit without a citation or arrest taking place... Calling another officer ( or on a refused consent, a K-9 unit to sniff for drugs) who has more expertise might negate that however..Photos, shouldnt be a problem as you are not interfering with the officer and his/her duties at the time. Collecting names and badge #'s is OK.. Attitude very important, be a good guy and stress you are just collecting info also...Might be good to have applicable VC's and other section copies w/ you for their consultation. Main thing to beef is PC..Probable Cause..He/she needs PC to do the initial stop..! Course, some one (the public) can always say they saw you point a gun at them...currently cel calls can't be traced so re-contact info can be bogus.....good thing to make sure all the little stuff visible (lights, plates, wipers, good tires, etc..) is up to code..As far as.."well, you know, after 911..." conversations are philosophical . Most young LEO's won't participate..

As far as illegal searches go, those can happen..however, they aren't lawful and what ever they find wouldnt/shouldnt be admissible...

Mike

*********

 

[davidkroberts]

your a much nicer man than i am. I did not get blown up in iraq and spend several years in combat to come home on a much needed break and get the rubber-glove treatment from Barney Fife and the Keystone Cops. I wouldnt mind the pullover even from just being curious, but when it goes beyond my bullsh** limit im going to start raising hell. Im very familiar with the "since9/11" mentality" and that doesnt superceed the laws regarding probably cause and harrassment.

made for an intresting story though.

dave in tenn

 

[tamangel]

post deleted..misread my own statement..

Mike

 

[topo]

I think trucks with military pant will always draw the attention of law enforsement . when getting my vin numbers checked my tan 1952 m-211 the officer knew it was military but my m-52a2 is white and black and the same officer though it was a commercial truck made by kiaser-jeep . kenny

 

[rmgill]

Feh, I get attention from the cops, when they see the license plate and make a quick query, it goes from, "Is that road legal?" to "Hey, that's pretty cool, how much does one of those costs?"

The hour spent getting raked over the coals, if somewhat polite, but still with threats to haul you in and let the judge sort it out makes me mad.

"Sure, fine, you can haul me in and let the judge sort it out and I can file a nasty complaint with your Sgt, your Lt, Your Captain and your Internal Affairs division for harassment because you have two printed forms of PROOF stating what the weight of this truck is, and you STILL insist on being obtuse. Still, I'd rather things go the nice way for both of us. You've got my license, you've run me for wants and warrants, I wasn't speeding, my truck is road legal, it ain't stolen, it's registered to me, my paperwork is in order let me get on my way. What do you want to do? We can go weigh the truck right now. We can gather up this little 3 ring circus, go down to the nearest Cat Scales and I'll pay for you to have a THIRD form of proof of the weight of this truck."

Of course the one time I was 'grilled' by two VERY obvious rookies, they were VERY polite and never threatened me. In fact they were pretty bad at their tactics and were I REALLY a bad guy, I could have killed them both several times. I in fact, called their sgt the next day to inquire, politely as to their "green behind the ears appearance" and she confirmed that they were quite new. Based on what I discussed with her, I expect they got a right bit of ribbing. They only checked everything, thoroughly, but seemed to be missing a few things on points of Ga Law, which I explained and had a bit of backpedaling from them. All was good.

 

[Michael]

Sounds like you have done about all you can do and not make matters worse. I think that if I were you I would get a certified weight for the truck just to be safe. Thankfully stops llike yours are the exception and not the rule, but they do seem to be happening more often.

As far as my avitar, well MVs seem to follow me home to.

 

[Sarge]

Don't sweat the small stuff

Wow!
A nightmare come true!
It could have been worse. Had you both behaved with crappy attitudes, it could have been much worse. I have a cop friend who explained the procedure to me. “You can beat the rap, but you can’t beat the ride”
He was referring to people who get violent at an incident, whether they win or not in front of a judge, they lose a couple of days of their lives, and are terribly inconvenienced. Before everybody goes nuts about the previous statement, guys, he’s talking about violent behaviour, not verbal abuse. Verbal abuse is part of every cop’s life, he’s not going to taze you because of it, but I almost guarantee that the ticket you might have got, you will now get.
A lot of people talk about winning in court, have any of you actually challenged something in court? Those of you who have understand that it’s a pain in the arse and it’s quite expensive. Sometimes if you are really objective, you’ll realize that it’s just not worth the time and money involved. You swallow your pride and move on with your life. Then again, sometimes it is worth the effort. Especially if you are going to have something on the record that will haunt you further down the road.
You know what I think?
The vast majority of guys on this list are law abiding citizens. But I also think that most of you do not ‘Suffer fools gladly”, in other words, if you see something wrong or just plain dumb, you are going to speak up against it.
Bravo! That’s one of the reasons I joined this list, not just for the MV’s, but also to be amongst like minded people.
Okay, now for Sarge’s personal experiences with LEO’s driving his MV’s across this great nation.
I have driven coast to coast, no exaggeration, and logged many thousands of miles with MV’s, usually with no licence plates. That’s quite legal if it’s registered in Texas. I have talked to dozens of cops along the way. Usually at ‘Stop and Robs’ (7-elevens). Sometimes when brewing coffee at the side of the road cops will stop to chat. I have never had an ‘incident’ with rude or offensive cops. Why is that?
Is it because of my appearance? I’m obviously (ex)military, flat top, bearing, clothing.
Is it because of my attitude? Friendly, always polite.
Is it because I’m not a bad guy? Well, not anymore.
Is it because of my age? Gray hair.
Is it because I never met a cop with an attitude? That’s a two way street.
Whatever the reasons are for never having a problem with a nasty cop, I don’t know.
I do know that every single cop I’ve met on the road has been curious about the whole private citizen owning a military vehicle thing. It’s not your normal run of the mill situation. So take the time, explain who you are, why you’re driving an MV and be courteous! Why not? “Hello, I’m so and so, this is a privately owned MV and I’m in a club that uses them for parades, air shows and the like. I transport Boy Scouts and similar groups. I am not connected with any kind of private militia, etc.”
What’s wrong with that? Satisfy their curiosity.
Everybody, group hug.
Readyman, your experience with a negative traffic stop was very unusual. Also, the cops behaving so obtusely about your data plate weight was not normal. Please do not judge all cops just by the behavior of these few.
What happened to you was not normal, it was an exception. If you wish to take the incident further, well, that’s up to you. Is it worth it? Well, only you know the answer to that.
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again, 99% of cops are good guys, never forget that.
-Sarge

 

[Crash_AF]

I called the Illinois State Police to see if the squad window cam video was available for my traffic stop. Well apparantly in IL they are turned on or off at will, so there isn't one(x3 state police squads). No paperwork was filed for my traffic stop, so it never happened as far as ISP was concerned.

I'm raising the BS flag here for a sec... there are always records. The easiest and most reliable is the dispatch tapes. All calls through dispatch are recorded... period. See if you can request a copy of the tapes covering the time you were stopped. That will give you the callsigns of the involved units if you wish to bring any other actions forward.

Later,
Joe

 

[readyman]

Sarge,

Yeah, I just had some of the same pm comms with another leo member.

I posted so everyone could hear about the experience, maybe would add some color/exitement for the forum. Have a laugh at my time/expense.

But in the end, I don't have any grudge with the ISP, no hard feelings either. I can see when someone is 'trying' to do their job, and in this case they were doing it without an instruction manual. Ya know, I really thought the 2 'ISP Supervisor gals', with their bored detached demeanor would put an end to it right quick.- We know its a 'guy thing' to climb and drool over big trucks, but there's nothing wrong here so mount up and get back to work.

Naw, I'm probably not going to pursue anything unless I could somehow streamline the procedure to speed it up or make it more efficient for all personal MV stops here in IL. But it didn't sound likely, again because of 911.

The state police are known for their militaristic character(by the newbie ISP's admission), so it was a lot different than BS'n with a local cops. I was the 'enemy prisoner' and I knew it, all the way until I got escorted to my garage.

There is no real procedure for MV with civvy plates, (Lt. call the 6 Guard bases around here and see if any trucks are missin?). And theres stuff in a MV you just don't see all the time in traffic stops, linked dummy 50BMG, Dry Nitrogen tanks, Plastic M2HB's, Slave cables, takes time to get your head around some of that stuff, and the all that time the officer is under pressure. Yeah, they deserve some breaks, maybe even an hours worth of 'waddowe do next'

The only time I was belligerant was at the very end.
When we got to the garage I said. After being with me an hour, running my life history(in his words), Chris and me being polite and co-operative, he still wouldn't shake my hand(his right - gun hand). And I was offended. 6 times before we thought the circus was over and he gave me this left handed girly handhold.
So we did end on a good note, he offered his right hand for a proper handshake. So in the end everything worked out ok with me.

 

[2027Deuce]

I had a similar incident when I was pulled over in my civilian pickup. Its seems the county local read my plate wrong, it was in the middle of the night and he didn't read it correctly so he radio'd to everyone available and continued to follow me. I knew something was up because he got right on my bumper and stayed there.

After another 10 miles we got to a junction where several highways come together, I drove through the junction and then everything just lite up! That local cop had asked for all kinds of help, the state troopers showed up, several sheriffs and eventually we even got a flyby and thats pretty good becuase I don't know of any law enforcement around here that even has a helicopter.

So there I was surrounded, its about 2am and colder than hello. The fist cop had me put my hands out the window while the second proceded in his attempt to tear my door off. He didn't manage to hurt the door but he did swing it open fast enough for my k-bar which was tucked into the door pouch to fall onto the ground. Thats where it got really interesting.

The next thing to happen was for cop number one to yell KNIFE! Can you say change your pants? Just like that I am looking at the wrong end of every gun on the scene and I'm so cold I was shaking so bad I must have looked like I was dancing. Somewhere in these few seconds that seemed like several minutes one of the troopers put 2 and 2 together. He saw my high and tight hair cut and a Marine knife and a very coopopertive very cold guy sitting there and quickly brought the situation back down.

As it turns out the plate that was called in was for a stolen vehicle and the guy was considered armed and dangerous. The local cop simply read the plate wrong. When I look back on this, the calm cop the trooper former Marine probably saved my life. The local cops who looked more scared than I did would have most likely shot me and then looked for answers. As it turns out, several of the state troopers were former Marines and we actually knew some of the same guys back in the service.

After everyone calmed down I told them I had no hard feelings and how they are doing a great job, the one local cop wanted to ticket me for no light on the license plate but the others told him not to. About a week later I received a written apology for what happened that night. So it just goes to show you that the LEOs are people too and sometimes mistakes are made, I know I make my share of them.

 

[readyman]

2027Deuce,
Thats a good one.

 

[M813rc]

Now it's time for the "My experience with the ISP" story.

In 2006 Sarge, JL (who lurks but doesn't post) and I took a trip to Virginia to pick up a Deuce, then drove it to southern Illinois to pick up Sarge's new MV. Somewhere near to East St Louis we found a big vacant lot and parked JL and the deuce there while Sarge and I picked up the other truck from 30+ miles off our route. We planned to sleep there in the trucks overnight, then drive on back toward Texas in the morning (deuce had headlight problems).
Upon our return, there was JL and the ISP. They were all waiting for us. Turns out the ISP had stopped to see if JL was okay or broken down. He told them our plan, they said "Oh no! Baaad area! Let's see what we can do". What they did was make arrangements with a volunteer fire dept several miles away to let us park the trucks at their station where the ISP also had a small substation. That night they kept an eye on the trucks while we slept, and we had access to bathrooms and coffee.

Anyway, for what its worth there is my experience with the Illinois State Police. Thought I'd post this because when people have something good to say, they usually don't.

 

[rmgill]

Re: Don't sweat the small stuff

Wow!
A lot of people talk about winning in court, have any of you actually challenged something in court? Those of you who have understand that it’s a pain in the arse and it’s quite expensive.

Actually I have. I parked in front of my apartment years ago in the area where the signs indicated that the allowed zone was. A county cop came through and ticketed everyone. I went to the court, contested it, another citizen also contested it. There were several others. The officer actually said she didn't understand the signs so she ticketed everyone. I had a copy of the county code that SHE has in her car and it gave the addresses and described the zones of no-parking clearly. If she'd read, she'd have understood. The judge dismissed it and chastised her for NOT knowing her job.

Trouble is there were probably 3 more people who didn't contest it who should have and the county got their funds for free.

Back to the thread...

 

[readyman]

RE: Re: Don

rmgill,
You seem to know something, I searched repatriation but nothing came up. Is there some unwritten rule about returning MV's to the gov't upon demand in the case of a national emergency. Or is that urban legend. Not voluntary like you posted? I'm worried more about a bogus recall as opposed to the patriotic things that went on in WW2.

 

[rmgill]

RE: Re: Don

Not that I recall. I think, if anything, under a domestic or national emergency, property may be confiscated as needed. This isn't so much MVs but anything that's needed. If say, some NG troops are short of transport and need vehicles, they could send a few troops and a LT around with requisition notices to take property from civilians for the war effort.

As touchy as this is, it's in keeping with some history, though I'm not sure how it works with the takings clause. I suspect one needs to be given a voucher that is redeemable at some later time for compensation.

 

[maddawg308]

RE: Re: Don

This is a touchy subject, but it has been done, most recently in WWII when I know that anyone who had a ham radio license and a transmitter had the radio gear taken for use by the Govt. and the military for their own use. They didn't really have a choice, as the radio equipment NEEDED to be used. However, the concept of illegal search and seizure comes up, and when the authorities take something privately owned for public use against the owner's wishes, it borders on the unConstitutional. If there was a receipt given for the item, and the owner was either allowed to collect the item or a suitable replacement at a later date, or a cash reimbursement for the item, that might be okay. Not too up on federal laws on search and seizure, this might be something for someone here with a legal degree and some insight.

I'll say this, though - if we were invaded by an enemy of sufficient strength, and the country NEEDED the trucks, I would gladly loan it to them if it would help the cause. Course, I would need a receipt and I would like a better condition one back after the war was over!

 

[readyman]

RE: Re: Don

I've been watching too much of that 'Jericho' series I guess. I gotta say the writing and direction is much improveed this season.