Picked up an M1165 - Want to Restore it

[EricSoWavy]

Hi All,

This is my first post here so please excuse the bundle of noobie questions... I figured I'd try asking everything at once and just get them out of the way. I purchased an M1165A1 REV yesterday and am now looking to restore it and add some creature comforts to the vehicle. Starting with a proper paint job.

1. For the paint job, I'd like to remove exterior panels and bolts and then replace ALL possible seals, including the door seals. I'd like to also replace the hex bolts on the exterior with new fasteners. Is there a good source where I could buy these parts?
2. I want to match the military CARC green paint... but how good is CARC paint exactly? Does it hold up well compared to a regular 2-stage automotive paint job with a matte clear coat? Or does it scratch easily and fade in the sun and would be a bad choice for a more expensive paint job?
3. Has anyone installed aftermarket bucket seats with Sliders? If so, what did you use? Is the Predator Bucket Seat conversion kit any good or is there something better? https://predatorinc.com/shop/hmmwv-bucket-seat-conversion-kit/
4. My Humvee does not have doors yet and I figured I'd take the plunge and try and find some H1 doors, fully dressed. The second best choice seems to be the Military X doors that you can skin, but then you're still stuck with an uninsulated interior and the heavy RV style manual windows. I know H1 doors are pricey, where's the best place to try and find one fully dressed? Is it worth it overall or am I missing something? Looks like you'd have to use an inverter to hook up their electric windows in the first place (a crank window would have been awesome with these)
5. Has anyone sound deadened and trimmed out and carpeted their interiors, while still retaining most of the Humvee style dash? Basically a hybrid between just throwing in an Alpha H1 interior? Any pics would be awesome...
6. What's the go to if you want to change out all of the exterior lights to LED? The kit from Midwest Military Equipment + their Trucklite headlights?

 

[Mullaney]

Hi All,

This is my first post here so please excuse the bundle of noobie questions... I figured I'd try asking everything at once and just get them out of the way. I purchased an M1165A1 REV yesterday and am now looking to restore it and add some creature comforts to the vehicle. Starting with a proper paint job.

1. For the paint job, I'd like to remove exterior panels and bolts and then replace ALL possible seals, including the door seals. I'd like to also replace the hex bolts on the exterior with new fasteners. Is there a good source where I could buy these parts?
2. I want to match the military CARC green paint... but how good is CARC paint exactly? Does it hold up well compared to a regular 2-stage automotive paint job with a matte clear coat? Or does it scratch easily and fade in the sun and would be a bad choice for a more expensive paint job?
3. Has anyone installed aftermarket bucket seats with Sliders? If so, what did you use? Is the Predator Bucket Seat conversion kit any good or is there something better? https://predatorinc.com/shop/hmmwv-bucket-seat-conversion-kit/
4. My Humvee does not have doors yet and I figured I'd take the plunge and try and find some H1 doors, fully dressed. The second best choice seems to be the Military X doors that you can skin, but then you're still stuck with an uninsulated interior and the heavy RV style manual windows. I know H1 doors are pricey, where's the best place to try and find one fully dressed? Is it worth it overall or am I missing something? Looks like you'd have to use an inverter to hook up their electric windows in the first place (a crank window would have been awesome with these)
5. Has anyone sound deadened and trimmed out and carpeted their interiors, while still retaining most of the Humvee style dash? Basically a hybrid between just throwing in an Alpha H1 interior? Any pics would be awesome...
6. What's the go to if you want to change out all of the exterior lights to LED? The kit from Midwest Military Equipment + their Trucklite headlights?

.
Hi Eric and Welcome to the Outfit!

#1 and #2 - Painting
One thing that is REALLY IMPORTANT is that CARC is a carcinogen. Sand it and You Die is the short version of that story. I have trucks that have 20 and 30 year old painted CARC that are definitely faded, at least a little but that material is extremely durable. Everybody has an opinion. Pick the one you want to believe. I have used RAPCO which is the right color and has worked really well - but it needs time to cure. @chucky has a heck of a thread about his overlander about carpeted doors and painting his truck with RAPCO paint.

#3 Fancy Buckets
Yep. Plenty of threads here offering up suggestions on kinds of seats. Read a bit and see of you can find something your local salvage yard can sell you. It won't be a bolt in fit, but with a little time and effort you can be more comfortable than in a standard issue seat.

#4 X-Doors
Sure thing. About a grand per door. The reason is definitely supply and demand. Current vehicles are being disposed of without doors (obviously). Our guberment can't trust you with armored doors, so they are removed and destroyed. There are several manufactures that build fiberglass versions of the X-Doors. I have seen several write-ups praising the fit and finish. Though I do have to say nothing here is ever without somebody fussing about what they got and how it fit their particular truck. Oh, and electric locks and electric windows are possible too. Especially on the M107x and M108x OverLand trucks.

#5 Sound Deadening & Carpet
Definitely! Sound deadening material under and on the inside will make a big difference. There are dozens of threads about sound deadening material and how to do it.

#6 LED Lighting
Before you spend your money, make sure that everything actually WORKS before you start making changes to your lighting. The HMMWV has a ground and a power wire attached to every light socket. The body DOES NOT work as a ground on these trucks. A grounding kit is available. Save your money. Clean every socket and every connection and use Anti Oxidizing paste. Spend a couple of days to clean every connection from the front bumper to the back bumper. You will be happier than replacing lights, then figuring that you need a special flasher to signal a left or right turn.

There will be some of the other guys along here shortly to offer suggestions. Just remember the CARC and sanding it that I mentioned earlier. It is bad stuff if you don't wear protective clothing and respiration of some sort.

Again, Welcome to the group. Post us up some pictures of what you have! That will give you some history when you look back at where you started.....

.

 

[mgFray]

Welcome! Before you begin, be sure to buy parts from reputable resellers. Personally I use MacMotors and Kascar for most parts, and then fall back to others for things that not being 'authentic' might be ok.

There are ton a bad parts out there, poor reproductions, things that look right but are counterfits. Stay away from ebay glow plugs for the engine! Marker lights and other lighting, if you want authentic again, stay away from Ebay and similar.

1. For the paint job, I'd like to remove exterior panels and bolts and then replace ALL possible seals, including the door seals. I'd like to also replace the hex bolts on the exterior with new fasteners. Is there a good source where I could buy these parts?
2. I want to match the military CARC green paint... but how good is CARC paint exactly? Does it hold up well compared to a regular 2-stage automotive paint job with a matte clear coat? Or does it scratch easily and fade in the sun and would be a bad choice for a more expensive paint job?
3. Has anyone installed aftermarket bucket seats with Sliders? If so, what did you use? Is the Predator Bucket Seat conversion kit any good or is there something better? https://predatorinc.com/shop/hmmwv-bucket-seat-conversion-kit/
4. My Humvee does not have doors yet and I figured I'd take the plunge and try and find some H1 doors, fully dressed. The second best choice seems to be the Military X doors that you can skin, but then you're still stuck with an uninsulated interior and the heavy RV style manual windows. I know H1 doors are pricey, where's the best place to try and find one fully dressed? Is it worth it overall or am I missing something? Looks like you'd have to use an inverter to hook up their electric windows in the first place (a crank window would have been awesome with these)
5. Has anyone sound deadened and trimmed out and carpeted their interiors, while still retaining most of the Humvee style dash? Basically a hybrid between just throwing in an Alpha H1 interior? Any pics would be awesome...
6. What's the go to if you want to change out all of the exterior lights to LED? The kit from Midwest Military Equipment + their Trucklite headlights?

1. There are a lot fewer seals then you would expect on a vehicle! I'm not sure how yours is configured, but on my M998 (198 I replaced the seals on the hood, the ones under the fold down windshield, the ones on the rear tail gate, and recently the ones on my soft doors. But honestly that is about it for the seals. The only other ones I can think of are on wiring harnesses and the dog-house cover.. both of which (on my vehicle) are just fine and don't need to be replaced.

Soft door seals are hard to find, there is a recent thread you should look at. Some places still have NOS seals available (it's pretty easy to install, if you can find them), otherwise Master-Carr seems to have some 'similar' seals that would work.

3. For CARC, unless you are an expert my advice is don't mess with it. That stuff is dangerous and can kill you if you don't know what you are doing and take adequate safety precautions. My "go-to" paint is from Rapco, I just buy rattle cans and so far I've repainted the HMMWV as well as an M1101 trailer. I've have people who worked in the military paint area locally tell me they can't believe it's just rattle cans and the flat is "good". Unless you are really comparing side by side you can't tell a difference IMHO. (Even then I've touched up some CARC stuff with the rapco and it's almost identical in color, once the Rapco finishes drying.)

4. Military X doors are pricey. I've found either the think skinned 'summer' doors or the Arctic doors are fine, even in the winter in Minnesota. But if you prefer a hard door the X doors are the ones to go with. (Other companies make reproductions of the doors in Fibreglass and other materials. There are a bunch of threads on the different doors and if they are any good or not.. but most of them are expensive.)

5. I've not done it.. but I suspect a good boom-mat everywhere, with the stock insulation panels and boards would work out well and not be completely visible. You might be able to paint the boom-mat. With that said, I'm not sure how much it's really going to quiet down things. Personally I just keep a supply of ear plugs in the vehicle for driver/passenger.

6. Newer vehicles already have been converted to LED for everything except the headlights (some have headlights already converted as well!). Check the front/read tail light, you'll probably see LEDs install there. For the side markers there are two models a bulb and an LED version. My trailer has the LEDS (not-replacable) and the HMMWV has the bulbs.. they work equally well in my experience.

As for the headlights, my preference is Truck-Lite: NSN 6220-01-616-1079

They are around $230 each, and well worth the price. IMHO stay away from the 'bug-eye' lights that use adapters. Often to get everything to fit you have to 'modify' the housing (i.e. smash a section to make enough room for the light housing, which creates it's own problems.)

Good luck, and definitely take a look at the TMs (technical manuals) for the vehicles and create a list of them to work on!

 

[williamh]

 

[TOBASH]

William stole my post! Mods, arrest him!

Welcome Eric, and please post pics.

T

 

[thoner7]

I’m doing basically the same thing with my 1165.

I bought take out dodge caravan seats off eBay. That are nice and fit fairly well. The front passenger seat is just high as it’s over the batteries. I did decide to alter the beam behind the front seats to give more legroom. I’m 6’1” and was kinda in between on doing it or not.

I like the hummer doors too, and wanted power windows for my little kids. I bought a reproduction kit from 4x4bodies.com. They have been a real PITA to get working and I’ve struggled with them for months. The only other option I’ve seen was from alpha customs. If you can afford them I’d go that route. https://alphacustoms.co/products/hu...-fiber-doors-complete-kit-w-removable-windows

One thing I was shocked by is how NOT water proof the roof and top are. I extended and altered my drip rails slightly to give me more protection and a true “gutter”. I also hit the seams in the top with seam sealer. Otherwise everything would get soaked with every rain. And we get a lot of rain where I live.

PM me if you want to talk further.

 

[TOBASH]

I’m doing basically the same thing with my 1165.

I bought take out dodge caravan seats off eBay. That are nice and fit fairly well. The front passenger seat is just high as it’s over the batteries. I did decide to alter the beam behind the front seats to give more legroom. I’m 6’1” and was kinda in between on doing it or not.

I like the hummer doors too, and wanted power windows for my little kids. I bought a reproduction kit from 4x4bodies.com. They have been a real PITA to get working and I’ve struggled with them for months. The only other option I’ve seen was from alpha customs. If you can afford them I’d go that route. https://alphacustoms.co/products/hu...-fiber-doors-complete-kit-w-removable-windows

One thing I was shocked by is how NOT water proof the roof and top are. I extended and altered my drip rails slightly to give me more protection and a true “gutter”. I also hit the seams in the top with seam sealer. Otherwise everything would get soaked with every rain. And we get a lot of rain where I live.

PM me if you want to talk further.

What specific problems were you having with the 4 x 4 doors? Did you buy the preassembled doors or did you assemble yourself?

 

[thoner7]

What specific problems were you having with the 4 x 4 doors? Did you buy the preassembled doors or did you assemble yourself?

I went with assemble my self. But assemble is the wrong word. Custom fabricate is more accurate.

I’ve had a lot of problems. Originally they told me to order the wrong power window mechanisms and I ducked with those forever. I eventually ordered a different sent which the company told me to try. Those were better but, still nearly impossible to install. They don’t function like a nice door window, more like a crappy kit window. They wobble and shift in the track. You can only move one window at a time, there’s not enough juice to move all 4 for example.

The glass size they recommended didn’t work so I had to go a tad bigger, and then could not actually get that glass in the door the way the instructions say. So I had to cut the jamb off the front doors to slide the glass in and then patch the fiberglass. The glass still hits the inside of the front doors tho.

The glass they recommend is laminated safety glass, but at 1/4” it’s too thick for the tracks and too heavy for the motors. 3 of my 4 windows ended up breaking after install and I’m not sure why. $800 down the drain.

So I’m now ordering tempered glass online in a custom shape with chipped corners, hoping that they 1- won’t hit the door when the window is all the way down 2- will slide in the door without needing to cut a hole in the side of said door again 3- will be thinner and lighter so they move up and down easier. Jury is still out of this will help.

There’s tons of fab on the door latches and stuff. Idk what you do for work, but I’d suggest working some overtime, earning the extra 4k the alpha doors cost, and buy the alpha doors. If I’d have done that I’d have saved myself a ton of time, frustration, and have a better product.

 

[EricSoWavy]

Thanks all for the help! Here are a couple of pics as requested

@thoner7 that is unfortunate but what you had to go through on those aftermarket doors is exactly what I'm trying to avoid... aftermarket doors just seem like such a mixed bag. I either want to pony up for H1 Civilian OEM doors or do the OEM Military X doors and skin them.

Do you guys feel like that OEM Military X doors are way worse than H1 doors in terms of sealing and feel, etc.? I was opening and closing the door of a Humvee with a set but they didn't seem like they even closed all the way or sealed and just seemed quite flimsy. For $4k that doesn't seem ideal... ???

1. On my question around the paint job and CARC, would it be dumb to invest in quality paint work and prep, only to spray it with CARC versus a 2-stage automotive paint? I obviously love the original military colors but have no idea about what the durability of CARC is compared to 2-stage paint. I don't want to pay for a paint job only to have durability or fading issues down the line.
2. For those who have installed buckets and sliders, do you have any recommendations on exactly which parts you used? Worried in particular about the passenger seat since it's over the battery and don't want it to be too high or mismatched to the driver.
3. Is there such thing as H1 doors with Crank Handle windows? Or are ALL of them electric/power windows?
4. Where is the best place to try and score a set of fully dressed H1 doors?

 

[jward1]

good luck and hope the pockets are DEEP.

 

[thoner7]

Yes there were hummers made with crank windows. Yes hummer doors are top quality. But they might set you back 20k.

Give that alpha door company a call. They look top notch and ready to install. Not a big project (like mine)

 

[Mogman]

Sounds like it would be much easier to by a Hummer H1 then "militarize" it if one wanted all of those creature comforts, it would probably cost less in the long run.
I do not think you will be able to have a correct looking "flat" paint job using the clear coat method, If you want a shiny paint job then that is the way to go.
Do not spend allot of money painting the truck or it will not look authentic as the gov just slathered the paint on.

 

[EricSoWavy]

One thing I was shocked by is how NOT water proof the roof and top are. I extended and altered my drip rails slightly to give me more protection and a true “gutter”. I also hit the seams in the top with seam sealer. Otherwise everything would get soaked with every rain. And we get a lot of rain where I live.

Did your roof leak through the turret hole plug or just down the sides and into the doors?

 

[mgFray]

lol the roof, sides, walls, etc leak on HMMWVs.. everyone who ever drove them in the service tells me they all leak. Even after replacing seals and other fixes, everything still gets quite wet inside during rain.

The main thing is to avoid water on the dash (just for comfort of the driver, as well as keeping the windshield from fogging up so badly) replacing the seals under the window is worth the effort, and if the glass has been replaced (incorrectly) adding the sealant around the windshield and frame (per the manual) helped a ton. While my window still fogs in the rain, I no longer have water coming under the window or around the window leading to instant problems.. now it takes a bit, giving me time to pull over or pull out a rag.

 

[thoner7]

Did your roof leak through the turret hole plug or just down the sides and into the doors?

It mainly leaked at the corners. The drip rails are too short. There’s a hole between the C Pillar and the roof where a squirrel could crawl through. The drip rain should be at least 3-4 inches longer to cover that gap. On mine, I had these aluminum rails, I believe to clip on a canvas wagon type bed cover. Those rails diverted any water running toward the rear, straight to the corners and into the cab.

I shaped some aluminum pieces and welded them (only to the C pillar) over the squirrel holes. I also ordered a 2 man drip rail and welded/extended the drip rail to cover the length of the roof. Because the doors don’t seal very well, I didn’t want water just flowing off the sides and onto the doors. So I had some stock aluminum welded onto the drip rail making a “gutter”. It can all be removed and stock drip rails be bolted on if a future owner doesn’t like it.

Other places water came in was the foam gaskets between the rear curtain pieces and windshield. Some of the bolts in the roof dripped. You can buy seam sealer in a caulk tube from an auto parts store. It’s pretty easy to cover any areas water come in with it and then paint.

 

[Mogman]

It mainly leaked at the corners. The drip rails are too short. There’s a hole between the C Pillar and the roof where a squirrel could crawl through. The drip rain should be at least 3-4 inches longer to cover that gap. On mine, I had these aluminum rails, I believe to clip on a canvas wagon type bed cover. Those rails diverted any water running toward the rear, straight to the corners and into the cab.

I shaped some aluminum pieces and welded them (only to the C pillar) over the squirrel holes. I also ordered a 2 man drip rail and welded/extended the drip rail to cover the length of the roof. Because the doors don’t seal very well, I didn’t want water just flowing off the sides and onto the doors. So I had some stock aluminum welded onto the drip rail making a “gutter”. It can all be removed and stock drip rails be bolted on if a future owner doesn’t like it.

Other places water came in was the foam gaskets between the rear curtain pieces and windshield. Some of the bolts in the roof dripped. You can buy seam sealer in a caulk tube from an auto parts store. It’s pretty easy to cover any areas water come in with it and then paint.

That is why everything installed in a HMMWV is water proof, they are always going to leak, was never meant not to.

 

[EricSoWavy]

Give that alpha door company a call. They look top notch and ready to install.

I will check them out, but was hoping to find some metal doors like the H1 doors versus a composite material. Otherwise, I wonder if they are any better than the OEM Military X doors.

There's also West Kentucky doors: https://westkentuckysurplus.com/col...owder-coated-fits-all-variants-x-door-pattern

 

[thoner7]

I will check them out, but was hoping to find some metal doors like the H1 doors versus a composite material. Otherwise, I wonder if they are any better than the OEM Military X doors.

There's also West Kentucky doors: https://westkentuckysurplus.com/col...owder-coated-fits-all-variants-x-door-pattern

My fiberglass ones are surprisingly strong and stiff. No flex

 

[BLK HMMWV]

Why exactly did you buy a HMMWV?
You want an H1.
A militarized H1 will retain its value.
And easier to find someone to work on, easier to find parts for and eventually sell.
A civilized HMMWV is still a HMMWV that your going to sink a bunch of money into it trying to make it Quiet, Cool, faster, waterproof, and full of 12 volt accessories.
When it comes time to sell it. And it will come.!!
A truly restored HMMWV with as much Military equipment on it will give you the best chance of getting some of your sweat equity and money back out of it.
I'm guessing you already have it tagged and licensed for the street?
Insured?
Make sure you get past that hurdle before you start throwing money at it.
But in the end it's your baby.
Have fun with it.
BH

 

[EricSoWavy]

Nah an H1 is boring

I want a restored military truck, with some creature comforts and added refinements. I’m not looking to put in an Alpha dash with an iPad on 20s on a Power Wagon, but I do want to go a little and beyond what is just military. I personally think the M1156A1 is the best looking/shape as well.

Back to the doors, can anyone point me to where I can even find a set of OEM H1 doors? Or OEM Supplemental Armor X doors? I get prices are up there, but where are people buying these? I don’t want aftermarket