Pics of Super Singles

M1075 · Jun 24, 2005

Cole-

I think you will be better off in the long run. Are you going to widen the split ring rim or are you going 2 piece? Are you going with beadlocks?

rdixiemiller · Jun 24, 2005

Gerhard
How about posting your wheel building procedure? It is one of the best writeups I have seen!

All
Gerhard (in my old stomping ground, Montevideo Uruguay) Has an extremely well written procedure for making 2 piece double beadlock whels for the deuce. He sent it to me in Microsoft Word, and I can't figure out how to attach it.

Gatnom · Jun 25, 2005

Gerhard sent me the same info, so I'm going to try and post it. Dave

Finding 11x20 well based one-piece wheels or at least the rims for those tubeless 14.5 MPT (Multi Purpose Tire) resulted impossible after contacting many Unimog dealers and wheel manufacturer. Than I saw pictures of what they do at USA6X6.com. and so came the idea to build my own wheels and how to: Take two standard rims, cut/weld/bolt them together to get a split rim wheel with desired width and offset.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com

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To start with I selected the original 7.5" deuce wheels with the thick disc and welded construction ( the reinforced HD but riveted would do the same) and checked for lateral and radial run out. Against the front of the rim I MIG-welded a 1/2" thick flange made out of curved flat iron and after turning, drilling and treading, 36 3/8"x1 1/4" studs were put in place using Loctite 271. From another 20" wheel, could be a rusty one in the ring area, I cut off the outer rim section, 3" wide, also welded a 3/8" flange in place and drilled and bolted together using high grade nuts completing the 11" wide split rim. <o

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A new hole for a tubeless Schrader valve was drilled inside the original split ring groove and the old oval hole closed by welding.<o

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The flanges (horn) for the beads had to be modified by turning and cutting off some material, since MPT tires need a flange 1” high instead of the std. 1.5" used for industrial tires. <o

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Finally the wheels were sandblasted and immediately painted with zinc-rich/epoxy primer. After statically balancing by spot welding steel patches in place, two hands of lacquer and one O.D. finish were applied.<o

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To keep the tire/wheel assembly airtight, a thin bead of polymer adhesive-sealant for bodywork was applied between the two mated flanges. I found this to be a practical solution replacing an O-ring in a special groove for something that probably never has to be disassembled for the life of the tire. It also will prevent [/B]corrosion[/B] between both surfaces and around the studs. After 1 year now and several K-miles I never had to adjust air pressure because of any leaking!<o

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Disassembly after weeks was tested and resulted fairly easy: deflate the tire, remove all but 4 nuts (over cross) and unscrew these just 2 turns. Re-inflate and both halves will come apart even before 10 psi is reached. <o

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Considering its many other uses (and you never know...) a cartridge or tube of sealant should be carried under the seat. I believe that in an emergency this material will work to fix even small punctures from the outside without demounting the tire (another advantage of TL !)<o

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It took me many weeks to complete this home made super single project but it’s something I always wanted to have for my deuce and beside the high cost of the tires at least the wheels came out relatively cheap. And I can assure that considering run-out tolerances they run better than many wheels from factory. For the long run only time and "some" abuse will tell if there are any weak links. If I had a lab, testing such a wheel to destruction would be easy and fast (and mandatory before mass production starts!!!...)<o

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Converting the truck to run comfortably on14.5R20 MPT tires also required some other modifications like power steering conversion (separate story), inverted rear hubs, hub&drum balancing and a 2” suspension lift by re-arching springs and adding short leaves in front.<o

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Everything was well worth the effort, this was more than just a little upgrade!<o

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GR<o

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rdixiemiller · Jun 25, 2005

Yep! That's the one! Talk about a first class job, I am really impressed with the work.
Question:
Do the 12.50R20's or 395-85's need the bead surfaces trimmed down like Gerhard's? Or, can the rims be left alone?

Gatnom · Jun 25, 2005

I think Gerhard will have to answer that one. I've not done anything with the info yet, and it will most likely be awhile before I get to it. I can see that the inner modification might be needed to have the bead seal properly, but I think the changes to the outer profile would be cosmetic. I imagine Gerhard may have done some trial and error testing to see what was required to make it work. Hopefully he will jump in and clear up some of the questions. Dave

Wick246 · Jul 8, 2005

I received a quote today from Stockton Wheel for 20x11" tubless wheels for the Deuce based on their "Power Wagon Special 24 Series" wheels. $375.00 each - powder coated. Seems fair for the work involved, however when you need 7 of them plus shipping and the cost of tires... :freaked:

There must be a better option.

Would it be hard, or expensive to have new front and rear springs made for the 2" of lift that Gerhard required?

Recovry4x4 · Jul 8, 2005

Last years brochure from Marsh Racing Wheels indicated that the 20" 6 on 8 3/4 wheels were coming out really soon. I have no interest in this but I'll bet that if they do have them it will be less expensive than $tockton Wheel. :yeah:

gringeltaube · Jul 10, 2005

OK Folks,

I'm back again from my 6-week trip to Europe (without PC!) and... a little surprised about the reactions to my wheel story. I wasn't sure about posting this for everyone because of responsibility/liability issues, etc.... Please keep in mind that I'm just an amateur welder/machinist telling from my own experience! I'm pretty confident that my wheels will perform well in the future and that my next set will be built the same way. But safety first, no one should drive down the highway close to 60 mph or even less in a deuce with homemade wheels without official approval or certification. Something like that is not required in a 3rd world country like Uruguay where the laws for on road transportation (heavy trucks) are ridicule. To be street legal any truck (military oldtimer included) must not exceed 27" bumper height (my deuce w/w was 39"!), has to have a one piece rear bumper, white with black stripes and... 3 point seat belts! So once a year to pass the technical inspection I have to mount on second front and custom rear bumpers... only for that day, understandable! After a long discussion they accepted my two point belts. When I still had the 9.00x20 they gave me a payload of 17 tons, 23 tons GVW!!! They allways check the brakes but never the tire load index or range, and even after last year having converted to singles the GVW wasn't changed! My six 132J singles combined can carry a total GVW of max. 12 tons at 60 mph, but who cares about LI?!!

Just a few technical considerations to my custom wheels:
They are airtight for TL tires but not beadlock wheels! MPT tires are specially designed to run on very low air pressure and therefore feature strong reinforced bead sections to help the tire stay on its rim. I never felt any need for beadlocks.

All MPT tires need special wheels and can't be mounted on standard industrial wheels because the rim flange is different! These rims can be well-base or semi drop center one piece or split two piece. See CONTI tech_adviser_en, page 45. One piece rims (older Unimogs) are not suitable for the deuce because of possible interference with the brake drum/backing plate. In EU they also use airtight 3 piece split ring wheels, nice and expensive (picture). Popular sizes of MPTs are 10.5-R20 (275/80R20), 12.5-R20 (315/80R20) or 14.5-R20 (365/80R20) and their crossply coussins. The 14.5R20 on 11x20 wheels is the ideal size for the M35 and also standard for the M35A3 (Mich.XL, XZL). Not to big, not to heavy, 6% increased top speed and the spare can still be fitted in its original place. Manufacturer of Multi Purpose Tires: Michelin, Continental, Dunlop, Semperit, Pirelli.

Deuce Wheels can be used for MPT tires only after reshaping the bead flange area. There is enough material to allow cutting off some to exactly achieve the pattern of the tire bead. I also cut off aprox. 1/4 inch of the outer profile not only for cosmetic reasons but to reduce the risk of distorting because of curb or rock contact.

Tire sizes like 11.00R20 and 12.00R20 (TT) mount on standard deuce wheels. 13.00R20 (365/85R20) and also 395/85R20 can be mounted with their inner tubes/flaps on deuce wheels widened 2-3 inches without modification of the flanges or valve system.

Good luck to All!
Gerhard

EDITED 01/07/2012: my write-up from post #63, in "readable format" plus some pics, below.

20x11” Wheels (MPT, Tubeless, 2-piece Bolt-together)
Finding 11x20 well based one-piece wheels or at least the rims for those tubeless 14.5 MPT (Multi Purpose Tire) resulted impossible after contacting many Unimog dealers and wheel manufacturer. Then I saw pictures of what they do at USA6X6.com and so came the idea to build my own wheels and how to: Take two standard rims, cut/weld/bolt them together to get a 2pc wheel with desired width and backspace.
To start with, I selected the original 7.5" deuce wheels with the thick disc and welded construction ( the reinforced HD version, riveted, would do the same) and checked for lateral and radial run out. Against the front of the rim I MIG-welded a 1/2" thick flange made out of curved flat iron and after turning, drilling and threading, 36ea 3/8” x 1-1/2” studs were put in place (coarse thread in flange) using Loctite 271. From another 20" wheel, could be a rusty one in the lockring area, I cut off the outer rim section, 3" wide, also welded but this time a 3/8" flange in place and drilled and bolted together using high grade nuts completing the 11" wide split rim.

A new hole for a tubeless Schrader valve was drilled inside the original lock ring groove and the original oval hole closed by welding.

The flanges (horn) for the beads had to be modified by turning and cutting off some material, since MPT tires need a flange 1” high instead of the std. 1.5" used for industrial tires of that width.

Finally the wheels were sandblasted and immediately painted with zinc/epoxy primer. After statically balancing by spot welding steel patches in place, two hands of lacquer and one O.D. finish were applied.

To keep the tire/wheel assembly airtight, a thin bead of PU adhesive-sealant (Sikaflex221 or equiv.) was applied between the two mating flanges. I found this to be a practical solution replacing an O-ring in a special groove for something that probably never has to be disassembled for the life of the tire. It also will prevent corrosion between both machined surfaces and around the studs. After 1 year now and several K-miles I never had to adjust air pressure because of anyone leaking!

Disassembly (after weeks) was tested and resulted fairly easy: deflate the tire, remove all but 4 nuts (over cross) and unscrew these 4 just 2 turns. Re-inflate and both halves will come apart even before 10 psi is reached.

Considering its many other uses (and you never know...) a cartridge or tube of sealant should be carried under the seat. I believe that in an emergency this material will work to fix even small punctures, from the outside without demounting the tire.*)
It took me many weeks to complete this home-made super single project but it’s something I always wanted to have for my Deuce and beside the high cost of the tires at least the wheels came out relatively cheap. And I can assure that considering run-out tolerances they run better than many wheels from factory. For the long run only time and "some" abuse will tell if there are any weak links. **) If I had a lab, testing such a wheel to destruction would be easy and fast (and mandatory before mass production starts!!!...)

Converting the truck to run comfortably on14.5R20 MPT tires also required some other modifications like power steering conversion (separate story), inverted rear hubs, hub & drum balancing and a 2” suspension lift by re-arching springs and adding short leaves in front.
Everything was well worth the effort, this was more than just a little upgrade. GR
-------------------------------------

*) Today I know that this trick works very well - if you have a few hours to let it cure.
**) Still looking good and running strong, after 6 years and a second set of MPT80s just mounted!

Wick246 · Jul 11, 2005

Thank's for the great info Gerhard. You raised your truck approximately 2" to clear the new tires. Other than adding air assist, did you need to make any other steering changes? Any difference in how she handles down the road?

gringeltaube · Jul 11, 2005

Looks like you want to know the PSt conversion story, too!? You'll get it, complete with pics, asap.
The springs (front and rear) had to be painted/serviced/rearched anyways, so I added 1.5-2" to the original height for increased suspension travel and... also for the looks!, but not because of insufficient tire clearance! OD of the 14.5R20 is the same as 11.00-20.

Gerhard

Wick246 · Jul 14, 2005

Pictures and story of your steering setup would be great Gerhard. :burger:

M1075 do your 395's rub on the bottom of the bed when the rear suspension articulates? Looks like the water tanks hold quite a bit and weigh a lot!

Albin · Jul 14, 2005

How do you guys balance these tires?

I know that truckers use golf balls; 4x4 people use golf balls and/or BB's in their large tires; I have 6 oz. of BB's in Dodge 35".

Al

M1075 · Jul 15, 2005

Wick246-

I haven't had any clearance issues or problems with rubbing.

Albin-

I run 'em straight, although I'm offroad most of the time. Golf balls would probably be best/easiest.

gringeltaube · Jul 18, 2005

Attached are some more pics showing applications of 365/80R20 and 395/85R20 tires. Both are the same tread width. The 365/80 are MPT, only mount on special 11" or 12" rims and are expensive but in my opinion one of the best choices for the deuce to really enjoy it on and off road!

Gerhard

M1075 · Jul 18, 2005

Gerhard-

Those tires look great. Where are you located? Europe? I haven't seen many of those tires around here. I agree they would both be awesome on a deuce. I would think the width of the tires would be different, as the first number should indicate width, in mm. You pic shows otherwise! I would expect the 395 to be about 1" wider and 3" taller than the 365. Maybe different tread patterns have something to do with it?

Marks Garage · Jul 18, 2005

What are A3 wheels? When I bought my deuce in nov 04, it included 6 extra wheels off another deuce. They are 11:00 singles. He told me they were singles. I can get 14:00x20 mich at a great price. Just wondering about getting wheels. P.S. I never saw the other wheels that came with my truck but I can still go get them. Thanks Mark

gringeltaube · Jul 18, 2005

Mark,

M35A3 (not M109A3) wheels: tubeless 2 piece rims made to be used with beadlocks and the CTIS. They are 11" wide with the beadflanges (horn) about 1" height. These single wheels fit on any deuce to replace the double wheel config. After flipping the rear axle hubs, track width is the same, front & rear. The tires for these rims are MPT (Multi Purpose Tire). Early M35A3s came with the Michelin 14.5R20 XL and later they put on the 365/80R20 XZL. (It's the same size, just metric). Some M35A2 were retrofitted with singles using the narower 11.00R20 XL TT on standard split ring 7.5x20 wheels.
Stay away from those 14.00x20s (or 14.00R20) even if you got the correct 10x20 wheels, they are definitely too big (and too heavy) to be fitted under your deuce fenders, unless you want to work hard on mayor modifications.

Gerhard

M1075 · Jul 18, 2005

Here is a pic of the A3. If you have these wheels, you are one lucky man!

gringeltaube · Jul 19, 2005

M1075,

the pictures were taken during my recent trip to Europe. Those tires not only look great but they also perform wonderful and they are very popular there. In the US it should be possible to find the Michelins at least. In Uruguay where I live you won't see any, they simply cost too much (very high import taxes!).

What I was measuring and comparing was just the tread width, not overall width. It's about the same for both sizes/brands.

It is correct: for metric sizes the first number indicates overall width and yes, the Mich. 395/85R20 on it's 10" rim was somewhat wider and also taller than the MPT81 on 11x20". In both cases actual measurements showed to be less than indicated in their catalogs! That seems to be e general (stupid) rule for tire manufacturers!?

cranetruck · Jul 19, 2005

Googleing the Michelin 11.00Rxl tire came up with at least one comment that they have "virtually no traction on wet pavement". Great off-road, but no better than the 1100-20 NDCC's for the highway.

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