Pin-On 20,000lb Garwood

[74M35A2]

I never said it wouldn't work. This winch's mounting plates are held to the frame with 14 bolts in its original application, none of which support its weight. Then, there are 8 large bolts which secure the winch to the plates. He is halving the fasteners again in half of that, and doing it as a cantilever. Should be ok, which then becomes a question of for how long. If it drags by the hoses he'll know it broke.

When I look at my 925, the winch is boxed in by frame structure. I don't believe these winches are designed to hold their halves together by themselves, especially under load. The top thin C channel is really a shipping piece which is left as a sacrificial cable catch. I believe the truck frame really holds the winch halves together under load. Almost nothing is holding it together in the above configuration.

I'm not a doubter. Do it, and report back. That is where the money is at. Watch, he'll be the one to pull me out with it at the next rally.

 

[Floridianson]

[QUOTE=Bunkerbuilder..Part of the reason winches are usually installed via frame rail extentions are side stress when a load is applied off axis IE a fairlead is used and a cable is not pulled directilly in line with the length of the truck...

Thats what I was wondering. Side load

 

[paradeduty]

The only thing that I can remember being of big news about vehicle "protrusions", at least around here in the northern states, was a big hullabaloo about the older type of snowplow mounts when the snowplow was not installed. Big shakeup in the industry and all of the snowplow mounting systems had to be up under the frame of the truck and not extending past the front bumper. But then the older systems had a lot less "frontal area" than that 3 foot wide winch (the mounts tended to "puncture" upon impact).
"

 

[98G]

Do it, and report back. That is where the money is at. Watch, he'll be the one to pull me out with it at the next rally.

Precisely! Empirical evidence trumps conjecture every time....

And since he's done this same design on another truck apparently we have at least a sample size of ONE that indicates that it works.

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

..Part of the reason winches are usually installed via frame rail extentions are side stress when a load is applied off axis IE a fairlead is used and a cable is not pulled directilly in line with the length of the truck...

I share the concern about side loading. Shear stress on the pins is not the whole story.

And doesn't anybody believe in cleaning metal before welding it any more?

Precisely! Empirical evidence trumps conjecture every time....

And THAT is the truth!

And since he's done this same design on another truck apparently we have at least a sample size of ONE that indicates that it works.

That's pretty hard to argue with, assuming that said design has actually been used hard where side loading is present.

If all it's done is straight pulls, well, we still don't know....

 

[Floridianson]

Wish I still had the picture of the D ring mount that snaped off a truck. Hope it all works out.

 

[spicergear]

Well, this has been some fun reading...sort of. I forgot my disclaimer, "don't do what I do- it doesn't work."

This winch is supported top bridge, front captured fairlead set up, bottom big tie rod, rear roll formed steel. I get the side loading stuff but have you put a big winch like this on a truck and used it...really used it?

I have- ...I have used the CRAP out of the rear 20K w/level wind winch I installed on my Mog. It's mounted on steel plates above the frame and not boxed in. I have pulled every way but straight up on that winch and yanked and dragged and bounced and abused it. I have taken a 9,000lb truck, dug it down to the axles (on a high clear portals) and pulled until that 5/8" cable was piano wire tight and broke a hung up tree in half. I use these winches.

Anyway, the design is done so that every connection is double shear on a .995" factory grade shackle pin. The upper tubes are 1/4" thick with 3/4" minimum around the hole. Calc' the tear out strength of four of them. Oh, and bottom tubes are 3/8" thick. Also calc the thickness in the shackle mount around the hole...fairly beefy considering it only needs to support 5,000lbs each. We all know they'll handle that.

So considering the copious amounts of factory bolts holding this behemoth into the truck on a stock set up, I'd like to point out there are four (4) ...quatro, like one, two, three, four... bolts holding the winch to the mounting plate. Four; not fourteen, FOUR. Even the 10K Garwoods have six per side, when I did the pin on for the front of the Mog, I only used five of the six. Go ahead, I'm exposed, skewer me. Oops, my mistake, Velvets 10K front winch was five bolts per side.

I'm not a professional welder, but after 25yrs of welding and easily over 400lbs of rods, I'll trust my welds with my life. I don't clean the entire piece, but I clean a strip where I'm going to weld 90% of the time especially when CARC is involved. Because it's not visible in the pics, doesn't mean it isn't there; my pics aren't that good.

Anyway, this is for my truck that spends 90% of its life on the farm making my life easier. See my disclaimer, keep the comments coming.

 

[spicergear]

I also wanted to add, there's also safety in numbers. Anyone could try hard enough and eventually break one shackle mount if ya drill it sideways. Hook four of them up in a frame and break them while their connected.

...it's all good.

 

[Recovry4x4]

Those who can, do!
Those who can't, teach!
Those who can't teach, consult on forums!

 

[Floridianson]

Those who can, do!
Those who can't, teach!
Those who can't teach, consult on forums!

You left out one. There are those who do and someone else has to pay.

 

[Wildchild467]

I like your idea, Tom!
Might want to steal it one day, to do the same, but with a (mechanical)10K-Garwood, fitted to a Deuce.
G.

You always do great work Tom, keep up the good work!

 

[74M35A2]

You always do great work Tom, keep up the good work!

Are you complimenting yourself, or the rear brake hose routing on my Cherokee?

 

[infidel got me]

pin-on 20,000lb garwood

opcorn:

 

[Csm Davis]

Spicergear I am not trying to say your idea is bad, use the heck out of it. But I have broken several of the 20,000 lbs Garwood winches and the fairlead doesn't add any support across the front and it will snap the small rollers off if you pull very much at all to the sides.

 

[Recovry4x4]

Those who can, do!
Those who can't, teach!
Those who can't teach, consult on forums!

You left out one. There are those who do and someone else has to pay.

Lift blocks in front? Someone else has to pay. Crappy trailer hitches, someone else has to pay. Any winch operator worth their weight in dog dung doesn't let ANYONE in the danger zone while winching.

The one thing that scares the living heck out of a mechanical engineer, is a common sense engineer. A common sense engineer can buy mechanical engineering degree. A mechanical engineer has no hope of getting a common sense degree unless born with it.

 

[spicergear]

CSM Davis, I've seen a couple with the side rollers popped myself and absolutely understand your caution. Typically if I know I'm going to be winching, I keep two of the large military snatch blocks with me and will use them to change the direction of the winch line most of the time if otherwise I'd have a hard side pull. I built this set up so I can 'one truck' a lot of my logging stuff...when I have stuff close to the edge of the woods. I know the winch is not protected or cradled but I have options to limit the unwanted type loads on the unit. Do you know if the fairlead mounts were cast iron or aluminum? I've seen both, and know the one I saw popped was aluminum. Can't remember the other. Surprised the heck out of me as I thought they were all cast iron. I know the housings are aluminum, have a whole winch spare for parts. Maybe I'll add one more brace across the top where the holes are plugged at the rear of the bridge just for grins.

Wildchild, good to see ya!

Kenny, see above.

 

[Floridianson]

No Kenny I thinking that the bumper out front will protect the outher car/driver better than the winch out front like it is. You know the problem is our bumber hight as it is. If we do mess up we have the uncontroled ability to walk up over a car and flip the truck over. With the winch out front like it is looks like it will be a good hit to someone's face. Has nothing to do with education or weilding abilty. You said it common sence. The winch out front is useing no common sence but it is his truck and do with it what he will but God forbid don't mess up on the road.
Concering bumber hight is why I am having my M920 built with a bumber hight of around 20 inches from bottom to ground in hopes that if I do mess up I push the car out of my way. I don't want to flip as that can involve more cars/people. I also took off the 16x20 tires and went with 11R24.5 tires to help lower the truck. Common sence. Been there seen that.

 

[Recovry4x4]

I see what you are saying. I have 2 points to discuss. 1) Tom mentioned that it's primary use would be on his farm. Unless he rams into the back of a family member, I don't see a problem there. 2) Pinned in place usually means the pins can be removed and the winch dropped off the truck. Your argument would be valid if he welded, bolted or otherwise made it a permanent install but he did the exact opposite. Perhaps we should clarify that aspect.

Tom, is this winch going to be installed permanently on the front of the truck for normal commuting?

 

[spicergear]

James, your point is very much understood, things happen. The FIRST legal day I had Bruiser on the road I was heading to the next town to pick up something. There was a section of the road that had standing water on it from some heavy rains earlier in the day and a Jeep Wrangler coming the other direction hit it and hydroplaned over into my lane. There's a guard rail to my right, trees, then a 10' drop into the river. I moved over into the marbles as far as I thought possible and he sailed by me maybe 2' into my lane. When I saw him hit that water, I was like "FUDGGGGGEEEE!" But I didn't say fudge. I knew if I hit that rail wrong or caught it and bounced, a 4' tire is sending me over, through some trees and into the drink from 50mph. I'M SURE HE WAS SH/TTING KITTENS as he left his lane seeing the giant truck he was sliding towards. FIRST DAY(!!!) and five minutes into the trip!!!

 

[spicergear]

Kenny, nope- ...these trucks are big enough without having another two feet added you can't see whatsoever. The whole point of this was that it wouldn't be a permanent fixture on the truck. Slap it on when I have logs near the edges and make it one stop shopping for pulling them out and loading same trip. It's a big winch, but I have a crane that reaches over the front. Taking off will be easier than putting on.

I'm more worried about mudflap liability as the set I thought would work didn't pan out. GOTTA get them on pronto.