Piston Rings Worn Out, Time for a Rebuild

[o1951]

I would if I wouldnt get pulled over by the PO9. I just have a feeling that could turn to crap. This whole truck rebuilding had turned to crap. Money pit with the same blowby. sorry if i sound cranky. im just sick of it not working right, sick of TJN Murray giving me the run around and not wanting to call me back. I figure I spend almost $2000 with those guys that whey would give me the time of day. Nope. I still have some piston rings to send back to them that they overcharged me for. Set of piston rings were $60. yea, that was for one hole. I thought they were for all 6 because other places were charging $10 a hole. Ugh. I hate this. Hate it, Hate it, Hate it.

Thank you for hearing me vent, I'm sorry to be cranky. I'm not dumb with engines and I just cant see how this still turned out like crap.

Sorry about that.
As I said, I only had about 50% success rate using "used but good" parts. Don't like short skirts or fewer rings - but I am an old school geezer.
Look, you got nothing to loose now. If you did not use Deere break in oil, I would try it now, and load heavy, as gimpy and I said. If it don't work, you are out only a few bucks for some diesel and the oil. Chance you may seat the rings enough to make you happy.

Why should you get pulled over? Is there so much blowby that it attracts attention?

 

[74M35A2]

Cummins 8.3 would look sweet it there Jerry !!!!!

 

[mark salanco]

I found this break-in article, it's for an aviation engine, but the principles are the same.

http://www.shell.com/business-custo...centre/technical-talk/techart08-30071255.html

 

[Wildchild467]

Cummins 8.3 would look sweet it there Jerry !!!!!

An 8.3 would take a lot more work to install than a new multifuel. Plus the whole part about running 100% diesel isn't attractive. An old 6-71 Detroit would be fun, yet I don't know if it would fit. I would give another multifuel a chance though before I did all of that. Its fun to brain storm even though I feel numb to any hope for this truck (even though its just the engine).

 

[Wildchild467]

I can hook my M105A2 trailer up to the truck. I have a lot of weight in the back of that. Maybe that will make it grunt a little more out on the road and help seat the rings. Take it for another 75 mile ride and measure the results with a leak down tester. When I put the cylinders and pistons back in, they came out of the same holes. So I can trace back to what piston kit is the problem.

I'm just feeling exhausted with this project... Ill let you know about the engine Gimp. I appreciate it.

 

[o1951]

I found this break-in article, it's for an aviation engine, but the principles are the same.

http://www.shell.com/business-custo...centre/technical-talk/techart08-30071255.html

That article once again points out the importance of proper break in oil. If the film strength is too good, the rings never seat, and the wrong oil glazes cylinders.

 

[Wildchild467]

I am using Rotella 15W-40 in the white jug, which is mineral based.

My EGT's are lower than what they were before the rebuild which leads me to believe all 6 cylinders are pulling for me. Maybe there is still hope. We'll see when I hook my trailer on the back and give it more of a workout... after rush hour. haha

 

[DavidWymore]

My understanding is rotella has 1200ppm of zddp/zinc which is a friction killer. Maybe not ideal break-in oil, but I'm no expert.

 

[Wildchild467]

Flat Tappet cams like the ZDDP I guess. Not sure on the rings.

 

[mark salanco]

I found another article on Diesel engine break-in.

http://www.woltergroupllc.com/breaking-in-a-diesel-engine/

 

[Wildchild467]

I pulled the oil cap off to check for moisture like I had before. The truck is back to its same old tricks. I added a gallon of coolant (first time I added any since I put it together, part of it could have been an air bubble or whatever) and there is moisture under the cap. I'm done with this POS. A head must be cracked or something because this only started happening when I put these "NOS" heads on. It never did this before with any of my old original parts.

 

[mark salanco]

It could very well be a bad head. Did you notice any of the cylinders looking different in color, last time the heads were off?

 

[mark salanco]

I was reading TM9-2815-210-34-2-2
Page 144
It is saying that the top of the cylinder sleeve to the block deck surface, should measure from
0.0005 to 0.005. The 3 cylinders for each head should not have a height difference greater than 0.002.
This could cause a Crack or leak if the height difference was greater than specified.

 

[o1951]

I pulled the oil cap off to check for moisture like I had before. The truck is back to its same old tricks. I added a gallon of coolant (first time I added any since I put it together, part of it could have been an air bubble or whatever) and there is moisture under the cap. I'm done with this POS. A head must be cracked or something because this only started happening when I put these "NOS" heads on. It never did this before with any of my old original parts.

View attachment 614125

If I remember correctly, both you and 74M35A2 said you heard a snap when you first installed new heads. That was never resolved. I don't remember now if it was me or another member that suggested head cracked, check block for flatness.

Well, Wild, if it was me, I would get that Rotella out of it. Not a good break in oil. I would get Deere break in oil and start loading it up. I figure by now, you have at least 10 hours on engine?

Worry about the head later. That is a rather easy fix. If necessary, you can put a little sealer in to get thru break in. If after a proper break in, compression, and blowby are still not acceptable, head is immaterial because I think you should go for another engine.

No way would I be pulling that one apart again, unless it was with a big sledge hammer.

But, I am OLD, and don't have the patience I once had.

 

[Wildchild467]

If I remember correctly, both you and 74M35A2 said you heard a snap when you first installed new heads. That was never resolved. I don't remember now if it was me or another member that suggested head cracked, check block for flatness.

Well, Wild, if it was me, I would get that Rotella out of it. Not a good break in oil. I would get Deere break in oil and start loading it up. I figure by now, you have at least 10 hours on engine?

Worry about the head later. That is a rather easy fix. If necessary, you can put a little sealer in to get thru break in. If after a proper break in, compression, and blowby are still not acceptable, head is immaterial because I think you should go for another engine.

No way would I be pulling that one apart again, unless it was with a big sledge hammer.

But, I am OLD, and don't have the patience I once had.

You and me both. I'm running out of patience too. That snap or pop we heard was a little weird but its hard to say what it was. I dont have any experience with something like that cracking when I torqued it down per the manual. It very well could be though. I think it was the front head that did that. I want to ship these parts back to TNJ Murray because I can buy scrap metal a heck of a lot cheaper than what this is. I'm in the process now of getting another engine. Fun fun!

 

[mark salanco]

Did you check the heights of the piston sleeves to the block deck?

 

[Wildchild467]

I did not. I felt the height with my finger though and it was about even. Are you thinking compression is leaking past the gasket and into the crank case? I had 74M35A2 and my Dad look at the gaskets and we all did not see any signs of leakage at all with the head gaskets. Is that what you are thinking?

 

[mark salanco]

What I was thinking, is that it's posable to have cylinder 1&2 at 0.005 above the block deck and cylinder 3 at 0.0005. This would be a 0.0045 height difference. This could Crack a head. Or maybe cylinder 1&3 are 0.0005 and cylinder 2 is 0.005.

 

[red]

High probability that the crack is between a coolant passage and the oil valley, which would match up with a uneven mating surface problem.

 

[rustystud]

What I was thinking, is that it's posable to have cylinder 1&2 at 0.005 above the block deck and cylinder 3 at 0.0005. This would be a 0.0045 height difference. This could Crack a head. Or maybe cylinder 1&3 are 0.0005 and cylinder 2 is 0.005.

I mentioned this possibility awhile back. This is a very important thing to consider on any diesel engine when rebuilding. I believe he said at the time they did measure it though.