Piston Rings Worn Out, Time for a Rebuild

[mark salanco]

Well I had my heads surfaced and valve job done, I used the new LDS liners, new LDS pistons with rings. I'm extremely disappointed in the performance of this engine, I also have the LDS rockers, injector pump and injectors. The new pistons and rings suck.

 

[Clay James]

This is disappointing as I have a set of those new pistons for an engine of mine.

 

[rustystud]

Well I had my heads surfaced and valve job done, I used the new LDS liners, new LDS pistons with rings. I'm extremely disappointed in the performance of this engine, I also have the LDS rockers, injector pump and injectors. The new pistons and rings suck.

What is it that makes them suck ? Are they not sealing ? From what I've read, a number of people have used these pistons and rings and had good results. In the next few years I plan on rebuilding a Multifuel for a spare and it seems these are the only pistons available now.

 

[mark salanco]

The new pistons lower the compression by about 2 points, and with only 2 compression rings, they don't seal. Now it starts hard, smokes like a train, power is way down.
I used the John Deere breaking oil also.

 

[ShawnIfert]

The new pistons lower the compression by about 2 points, and with only 2 compression rings, they don't seal. Now it starts hard, smokes like a train, power is way down.
I used the John Deere breaking oil also.

Overall I am very happy with the 5 ton pistons, rocker arms, injection pump, injectors and m35 a3 intake and exhaust which are larger than the m35 a2 gear and equal to the 5 ton setup. I have tons of power and it runs great. I have. 1000 miles on it since with no real issues. The only thing is when it is below 30f i have to use the manifold heater for a few seconds. It smokes a little until it warms up, but nothing out of the norm for an older style Diesel engine. We had some V92's detroits that would smoke the yard out on start up in the winter. The military came out with a ether starting aid kit when the new pistons were introduced. It could be an EPA thing or to address the hard start issue. In my opinion when you do this upgrade to a LDS setup you need to do the intake and exhaust for the best results. Not enough air or a restricted exhaust, you will not get the proper performance from the engine.

 

[ShawnIfert]

The new pistons lower the compression by about 2 points, and with only 2 compression rings, they don't seal. Now it starts hard, smokes like a train, power is way down.
I used the John Deere breaking oil also.

I missed one thing. Most of your new Diesel engines only have two compression rings.

 

[mark salanco]

I removed my air filter and took a test drive, it made no difference at all. Same poor performance.

 

[ShawnIfert]

Well exhaust changes and inspect your injectors. Burning engine oil??? Loss of coolant??

 

[rustystud]

Overall I am very happy with the 5 ton pistons, rocker arms, injection pump, injectors and m35 a3 intake and exhaust which are larger than the m35 a2 gear and equal to the 5 ton setup. I have tons of power and it runs great. I have. 1000 miles on it since with no real issues. The only thing is when it is below 30f i have to use the manifold heater for a few seconds. It smokes a little until it warms up, but nothing out of the norm for an older style Diesel engine. We had some V92's detroits that would smoke the yard out on start up in the winter. The military came out with a ether starting aid kit when the new pistons were introduced. It could be an EPA thing or to address the hard start issue. In my opinion when you do this upgrade to a LDS setup you need to do the intake and exhaust for the best results. Not enough air or a restricted exhaust, you will not get the proper performance from the engine.

OK, you got me confused here. The M35A3 has a "Caterpillar" engine. How did you use it's manifolds on a multifuel engine ?
Also the intake and exhaust manifolds are the same on the 2.5 ton and 5 ton multifuel engine. Are they not ? Not ever owning a 5 ton multifuel engine I cannot say for sure but the parts books don't show any different numbers that I can see.
Can someone chime in here who does own both ?

 

[gringeltaube]

Greg, where did you read "manifolds"...? Go back to post #764, to see what was actually changed.

 

[Wildchild467]

The new pistons lower the compression by about 2 points, and with only 2 compression rings, they don't seal. Now it starts hard, smokes like a train, power is way down.
I used the John Deere breaking oil also.

WOW Mark... I thought your engine was running well. Did something change? Mine ran good for a while (400ish miles?) after I rebuilt it as well and then I started getting blowby and poor starting performance (even when it was 60 or 70 degrees out). It sounds like you are having the same exact experiences I have had with my "new style LDS piston kits". They work good for a little bit and then just immediately suck after 400 miles. They only thing i think they are good for is the liners and 2 hole piston oil squirters to put in your old engine. Its interesting because you say you used JD break in oil and I was wondering if I should have done that but it sounds like it didn't matter in your case either since you used it and I did not. I really feel bad for you that your engine did not work out but then I also seem to find an inner peace that I am not crazy and somebody else had the same results I did. I would have used my old pistons If the ring grooves on the piston were not in bad shape. I hope you saved your old pistons.

 

[ShawnIfert]

OK, you got me confused here. The M35A3 has a "Caterpillar" engine. How did you use it's manifolds on a multifuel engine ?
Also the intake and exhaust manifolds are the same on the 2.5 ton and 5 ton multifuel engine. Are they not ? Not ever owning a 5 ton multifuel engine I cannot say for sure but the parts books don't show any different numbers that I can see.
Can someone chime in here who does own both ?

The exhaust is 4in on the Cat engine. I made a 4in exhaust from the engine to the 4 inch a3 muffler and put a 4in adapter on turbo and 3 inch intake piping to the turbo inlet from the air cleaner. Standard on an a2 is 2 1/2 intake to turbo and 3 1/2 exhaust from turbo and the air cleaner is rated for 450 cfm and the 5 ton is rated for over590 cfm



The intake piping, air cleaner and exhaust piping are larger on the 5 ton. 4 to 4 1/2 exhaust and intake is 3 to the turbo from what i can remember.

 

[rustystud]

Greg, where did you read "manifolds"...? Go back to post #764, to see what was actually changed.

Boy, I must have been out of it last night ! I thought I read intake and exhaust manifolds. I spent over a hour and a half looking at the parts manuals ! Part of the problem is I only read what was posted new that day and sometimes the context gets lost. Thanks Gerhard for correcting that. As far as using the air filter out of the A3 I can concur that it helps the engine run better in my opinion. At least it seems to rev faster. Of course that could just be my imagination and the fact I like the look of it better !
I thought I would also add about my previous comments, that is why I always use full names ( like Hydraulic Head instead of HH) for parts and usually reiterate what was spoken before. Like "yes the air cleaner is larger in a cat engine" . This helps dispel any confusion for those just coming into the post, or helps remind those like me who tend to forget what was said earlier.

 

[Wildchild467]

Mark,

Any updates as to what the issues are with your engine? I just wanted to double check to see what your experiences are. Thank you.

 

[CHIEFSONN]

I am with you rustystud reiterate what was spoken before so as you have an idea as to what is being said not having to look back god now's how many post. ? How do you get the original to appear ti the post you are answering.

 

[Another Ahab]

I am with you rustystud reiterate what was spoken before so as you have an idea as to what is being said not having to look back god now's how many post. ? How do you get the original to appear ti the post you are answering.

At the bottom right of the post, you'll see three icons with text:

- Reply

- Reply with Quote

- And what looks like a little TV screen with a plus sign.

To reply with the original post included, select on the "Reply with Quote".

And if you want to add a string of posts, select in sequence on the "TV screen" for each post you want to include, and then finally selcect on "Reply with Quote" on the last in the series you want included.

This might sound complicated, but if you say it out loud to yourself while you do it, that might help.

 

[74M35A2]

80 pages, one piston set, 2 ring sets, heads, sleeves, magic rod bolts, and an engine block later, OP still has blow-by. I'm blaming the WMO fuel, unknown liquid content (glycols, etc...), but each their own. Send a liquid sample from the city municipal recycle center you are drawing from, out to a lab for a spectral analysis, it is cheap to do, and then you will know what you are putting in your engine. I think you said you did not have problems until that source? Petroleum may be an approved fuel by the engine maker, but you don't know what (else) is in it. Filtering only removes the rocks. Spin it and you could separate via density.



Next time, go wicked up P-7100 Cummins 5.9L Dodge Ram engine (94'-98'). Low cost reliable engine that can reach 500hp / 4000rpm and can nearly double your RPM operating window.

The only time I have blow-by is when I pass you, unless I am out of fuel, again....

 

[Wildchild467]

80 pages, one piston set, 2 ring sets, heads, sleeves, and engine block later, OP still has blow-by. I'm blaming the WMO fuel, unknown liquid content (glycols, etc...), but each their own. Send a liquid sample from the recycle center out to a lab for a spectral analysis, it is cheap to do, and then you will know what you are putting in your engine. Petroleum may be an approved fuel by the engine maker, but you don't know what (else) is in it. Filtering only removes the rocks. Spin it and you could separate via density.

View attachment 672991 View attachment 672993 View attachment 672994

Next time, go wicked up P-7100 Cummins 5.9L Dodge Ram engine (94'-98'). Low cost reliable engine that can reach 500hp / 4000rpm and can nearly double your RPM operating window.

The only time I have blow-by is when I pass you, unless I am out of fuel, again....

But Mark now has the same issues with with his piston kits.... the truck lacks power and is hard to start. He is using 100% diesel.

As far as me using some WMO in my fuel, the first first rebuild I had about 50% diesel and 50% WMO... and it ran good for a while until it started not to and getting blow by and hard to start.

The second "rebuild" I honed the cylinders (incase of glazing) and checked the rings again and all looked just as it did before. I also drained all my my fuel and filters and filled with 100% diesel. I had the same results as before. Still harder to start and had blow-by.

Nobody knows what the problem is and we dont have data to support and root cause, only speculation. The only data I have is doing a leakdown test and finding my "New Style LDS Piston Kits" had 95% leakdown. So if nothing was broken and all looked fine, then what would using WMO do physically do the engine to not cause it to run well? upon visual inspection, everything looked fine inside the engine when it was pulled apart the second time.

I hope to have Mark chime in and see what more his results were.

If my engine bites the dust again, Im going to put a 4-71 Detroit Diesel in it with jake brakes. Enough screwing around. So if anybody has one, I may want one just to have as backup. I love the multifuel but enough is enough after a while.

 

[JDToumanian]

If my engine bites the dust again, Im going to put a 4-71 Detroit Diesel in it with jake brakes.

Well here's to hoping your engine takes a dump!

That's a conversion I'd like to see...

Jon

 

[Wildchild467]

Well here's to hoping your engine takes a dump!

That's a conversion I'd like to see...

Jon

HAHA! Thank you for your support!