Power steering conversion?

[69DeuceJuice]

I found a guy with a 1977 deuce road tractor with a power steering pump and box on it but it looks like it has a different engine in it. I have the old school multifuel engine and I wanted to ask from seeing this picture if someone here could tell me if it’ll work on my truck? It’s a 69 m35a2.

 

[cbrTodd]

Are you sure that's a deuce? Looks like a 5 ton to me. If it is indeed a 5 ton, what I've read is that it won't work on a 2.5 ton without significant suspension lift - too narrow of an axle so when turning the pitman arm / drag link hits the tire.

 

[rustystud]

That engine looks like a Cummins to me. What kind of truck is it ?

 

[cattlerepairman]

IF (big if) this is a Deuce carcass that has power steering and a Cummins, I'd consider repurposing that whole drive train, not only the power steering.

The cheapest conversion/upgrade is the one where someone else has already gone through all the pain and money to make it functional.

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[porkysplace]

That engine looks like a Cummins to me. What kind of truck is it ?

It sure does look like a Cummins

 

[HDN]

How many lugs on the wheels? It's a 5-ton if it has 10 per wheel.

 

[rustystud]

The reason I mentioned it looks like a Cummins is it has the classic gear driven air-compressor that then has the injection pump driven off the compressor. Plus the valve cover makes it look like a "Cummins M11" . I worked on these engines at the transit dept for years. Those injection pumps are a royal pain to remove.
Of course I could be wrong, after all my mind has started to forget things but I'm pretty sure it is a Cummins.

 

[HDN]

Of course I could be wrong, after all my mind has started to forget things but I'm pretty sure it is a Cummins.

The big "C" on the valve cover that @porkysplace pointed out seems to be a good clue that the motor is a Cummins.

 

[ToddJK]

I'd take a picture of and around the truck. Can even check the data plate inside if you're allowed too though that's not a guarantee as those can be swapped by anyone with a plate bought online, given it's the original or even there. If this is a deuce, then because it's had a motor swap, you'd have to figure out how you'd want to mount the pump (on the multifuel, there's more room and easier to mount alternators and pumps on the passenger side vs driver as seen here) and then measure and see how the steering system is set up underneath that you can mimic.

 

[Floridianson]

69Deucejuice if you do strip the Cummins and need to get the PT off the half moon wrenches make it a snap with the correct one. The top inside bolt is the hard one and all you have to do is just break it loose. Then use your finger the rest of the way. Much easer to remove and install than doing a Deuce IP or any fuel control I have done.

 

[69DeuceJuice]

IF (big if) this is a Deuce carcass that has power steering and a Cummins, I'd consider repurposing that whole drive train, not only the power steering.

The cheapest conversion/upgrade is the one where someone else has already gone through all the pain and money to make it functional.

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Alrighty so I told the guy I can’t get the power steering and everything cause it won’t work but he’s also selling me the hard top off of it. Will that work on my deuce?

 

[cattlerepairman]

Yes, M800 series and M35 have the same cab dimensions. Hard top will fit.

 

[rustystud]

69Deucejuice if you do strip the Cummins and need to get the PT off the half moon wrenches make it a snap with the correct one. The top inside bolt is the hard one and all you have to do is just break it loose. Then use your finger the rest of the way. Much easer to remove and install than doing a Deuce IP or any fuel control I have done.

I have a complete set of "Half Moon" Snap-On wrenches and that "easy" top bolt is usually rusted in tight !
That wrench only allows a 1" amount of movement. Laying on your back trying to reach up and get those bolts off can be a challenge ! The air-compressor can also be a pain to get out too. Especially since you need to remove the injection pump first. Since there is usually no room to remove the compressor and pump at the same time.
I've probably R&R 40 to 50 of these little beasties ! In the Gillig bus fleet we had over 350 of these engines. Since they are fleet buses and bought at the same time, failures happened at usually the same time too. When the Sulpher was banned from Diesel fuel we lost over 1000 injection pumps in a six month period. One quarter of the fleet.

 

[Floridianson]

Well good thing we don't have to lay on our backs with the 939 series with a forward folding hood and removable inner fender well. 809 a little tougher unless you're a skinny boy using the access panels or remove the fender. Been 13 years since I removed a PT pump but I still rather do three PT pumps then one Deuce pump that you have to set up timing and deal with injector lines.

 

[rustystud]

Well good thing we don't have to lay on our backs with the 939 series with a forward folding hood and removable inner fender well. 809 a little tougher unless you're a skinny boy using the access panels or remove the fender. Been 13 years since I removed a PT pump but I still rather do three PT pumps then one Deuce pump that you have to set up timing and deal with injector lines.

I didn't know you had so much experience with the Cummins M11 engines.
I guess oil riggs must have a lot of them.
Also the 939 or 800 series trucks don't use the Cummins M11 engine, which we were talking about here.
Anyway, thought you were staying with the 5 tons and leaving the little Deuces alone.
Getting boring over there ?
Oh, by the way. After replacing an Injection pump on a Cummins your supposed to set the injectors and valves which can take 4 hours or more depending on how stuck everything is. Barring the engine over gets real old real fast.

 

[gringeltaube]

Also the 939 or 800 series trucks don't use the Cummins M11 engine, which we were talking about here.

Correct, they don't....

And we are talking about (eventually) using the power steering components shown in the OP's picture, to be installed in a Deuce.
To that my answer is: .... Possible: yes. Practical: not at all!

BTW, that engine is the stock NHC-250 small cam, in an early model M939-series chassis.

Yes, M800 series and M35 have the same cab dimensions. Hard top will fit.

... But the one in question is a M939 series cab, which is 1ft wider than the Deuce's and M809's.

 

[cattlerepairman]

Correct, they don't....

And we are talking about (eventually) using the power steering components shown in the OP's picture, to be installed in a Deuce.
To that my answer is: .... Possible: yes. Practical: not at all!

BTW, that engine is the stock NHC-250 small cam, in an early model M939-series chassis.


... But the one in question is a M939 series cab, which is 1ft wider than the Deuce's and M809's.

Apologies, missed that. Thought we were talking Deuce.

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[rustystud]

Correct, they don't....

And we are talking about (eventually) using the power steering components shown in the OP's picture, to be installed in a Deuce.
To that my answer is: .... Possible: yes. Practical: not at all!

BTW, that engine is the stock NHC-250 small cam, in an early model M939-series chassis.


... But the one in question is a M939 series cab, which is 1ft wider than the Deuce's and M809's.

So it was a 5 ton truck after all and not a Deuce. That makes sense.
For awhile it had me going thinking someone had installed a Cummins in a Deuce.