Power steering for the Deuce?

[Trango]

To bring this post back to the surface, I have a Ross Hydrapower box here (made to go outside the frame rail) that comes tapped as stock from the factory. I'm currently rebuilding the pump right now, but just thought I'd post up after finding this thread while searching.

 

[Trango]

....well, I guess that post may have been somewhat premature. I actually have a Ross HPS box... the casting marking on the main piece is HPS 782981. The pump I have is an Eaton... which I'm currently considering replacing with a Saginaw - not sure what I'll do yet.

BTW just found this great site! Of course, after I rebuilt the unit.
http://www.stangerssite.com/eatonpump.html

Anyway, the overall steering assembly is pretty interesting - it has a hydraulic ram whose piston attaches to the middle of the pitman arm, and the body of the ram goes back to a bracket that secures to the frame. I'm not sure if it's ram assist power hydraulic, or whether it's simply ram assist... either way, I'm sure it will be a major improvement.

I should finish this within the next couple of weeks - I'll try to take some pics.

 

[arbuckle]

what model of hf54 steering box are you using to convert the duece and half? The hf542996 you gave they tell me is a casting #. Manufacturer says model # is either on 4 bolt flange where colum attaches to gearbox or on flange where pitman arm attaches to gearbox. or will any ross hf 54 box work? thank you

 

[arbuckle]

does it matter what model of hf 54 steering box I use to convert duece? Hf 542996 is a casting # they tell me there are several models of hf54 boxes. Thank you

 

[gringeltaube]

Arbuckle: found the stamped letters, at the bottom part of the housing..... would be nice to know how to decode them.

Following are the numbers of the boxes I have at hand:

1) HF54050 041 8
2) HF54050 235 79
3) HF54050 303 79 (pictured installed)
4) HF54050 ?????
5) HF54043 136 7 W/ additional ports (for hyd. ram or brake booster?)
6) HF54044 034 8 pitman shaft to mounting surface NOT 90º, only 3 mounting bolts.


The HF54050 seems to be the standard configuration. The one that I used for my first conversion years ago should be the same.

See what you can find out about model# and application.

G.

 

[arbuckle]

G. HF54050 was the model # of the box. I called a salvage yard and they said that was a good #. They told me there were 25 different models of HF54 boxes. Thank you for providing me with the right model of box. They said the HF54050 boxes were on LN ford trucks. The question the salvage yard had was what pump I was going to use. I told them a pump off of a 5 ton. Do you know what the 5 ton pump is putting out? They said the HF54050 box will only handle 1500psi and 2.5gal per minute. They are worried that the box won't be able to handle the pump. Thank you

 

[kochevnik]

Don't know if this was mentioned before - Gringeltaube has done the most interesting PS work I've seen here :

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?2909-deuce-power-steering-conversion.html#post22582

Page 3 has a contact for the HF54s.

I can't find the thread but I thought the 5 ton PS pump was 1000 psi.

 

[gringeltaube]

For specs of a typical 5ton MF pump see my post#14 here:
I know of variants out there, limited to only 1000psi but slightly higher capacity.
Specs of such a pump are added below. (This particular pump was successfully used in a similar case by SS-member Baxter, maybe he could chime in....?)

I don't know what exactly could happen to the gear with a pump putting out twice as much as they suggested it can take??? Overheating might be just one of the possible consequences.... not in my case, though.
If anyone could find some factory specs for these HF54s please post up.

Anyways I wouldn't worry to much about capacity in excess; these pumps all have a well designed relief/overflow valve connected to a third hose returning oil directly back to the reservoir.

All I can add is that that very first combo has worked well for 5years + 30Kmiles now, and plenty of use and abuse! So I'm confident to continue using the same components and combination for future conversions.

G.

 

[kochevnik]

Gerhard : Not to be too dumb but I am getting ready to order some of this stuff - are you saying ANY of the HF54050 steering gears should work with the multifuel PS pump ?

In other words, are any of the 4 HF54050s that you listed above that would NOT have worked in your PS conversion you showed in this thread :

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?2909-deuce-power-steering-conversion.html#post22582

I am finding some sources of these HF54050s - I just need to nail down a good price. And while I am at it - anyone have a source for the multifuel PS pump ?

Thanks,
Matt

 

[kochevnik]

I found some OEM cross reference numbers for the HF54050 here :

http://texaspowersteering.com/Steering%20Picture%20Catalog%208-2007.pdf


Search Terms:
D0HZ3504J
[SIZE=+1]RG54050X
[/SIZE]E0HT3N503JA
casting number : HF542996

and some of the trucks using the HF54050:

Height:​

19.5

Length:​

9.5

Width:​

13.5

1980-1980
Ford Trucks - Medium Duty
LN600
All​

[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]Application Data:[/FONT]w/5,000,7,000 lb. Front Axle

1979-1970
Ford Trucks - Medium Duty
LN600
All​

[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]Application Data:[/FONT]Exc. w/9,000 lb. Front Axle

1980-1980
Ford Trucks - Medium Duty
LN700
All​

[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]Application Data:[/FONT]w/5,000,7,000 lb. Front Axle

1979-1970
Ford Trucks - Medium Duty
LN700
All​

[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]Application Data:[/FONT]w/Exc. 9,000,12,000 lb. Front Axle

1980-1980
Ford Trucks - Medium Duty
LN7000
All​

[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]Application Data:[/FONT]w/5,000,7,000 lb. Front Axle

1979-1970
Ford Trucks - Medium Duty
LN7000
All​

[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]Application Data:[/FONT]w/Exc. 9,000,12,000 lb. Front Axle

1979-1970
Ford Trucks - Medium Duty
LN750
All​

[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]Application Data:[/FONT]Exc. w/9,000 lb. Front Axle

 

[gringeltaube]

.... are you saying ANY of the HF54050 steering gears should work with the multifuel PS pump ?

YES, they do...!

..........any of the 4 HF54050s that you listed above that would NOT have worked in your PS conversion .........

NO, the ones listed are all "waiting" on the shelf, for future similar projects.
The only one not suitable is the 044.

I am finding some sources of these HF54050s - I just need to nail down a good price. And while I am at it - anyone have a source for the multifuel PS pump ?

Thanks,
Matt

Wish I could help with that, they are scarce!
Good luck finding one!


I took plenty of detail pics during my second conversion, if anyone is interested...

G.

 

[kochevnik]

I AM VERY INTERESTED

Can you please put them here or start a new thread.

Another thought, a lot of people bob their deuces and cut the rear frame off. Is there any reason that those rear frame pieces could not be used as the frame stiffener piece you showed in your first thread about your conversion ? Seems to me it would be a good choice.

The more I look into this the more 'doable' it seems to be. Many thanks G - it is an amazing help to have someone who already paved the way.

 

[gringeltaube]

No problem with those cut-off frame pieces. (Reuse, recycle, rebuild....!)

This conversion IS "doable" w/good results.....! Here some pics.........

G.

 

[gringeltaube]

kochevnik: just saw the link and application chart you had posted: very interesting info, everything we always wanted to know... have a lot to read and learn now..... thank you!

According to the press. & flow specs on page 86 the HF54 needs min. 3.2GPM and max. 6.0GPM at max. 1500psi, so the 5ton MF Vickers/Eaton pump is a good match!

Here a few more pics of the now finished PS-conversion of another old '60 Curtiss-Wright gasser converted to MF to run on sunflower oil...

G.

 

[kochevnik]

G :

Some questions if you don't mind :'

1) Do you have a part number for that International reservoir that you used ? Or what kind of truck/bus it came off of ?


2) In that last picture, what is the little white bottle next to the PS reservoir ?

3) How did you fabricate the custom pittman arm ? Did you do it yourself, or did you find a used one that was close and change it ?


4) Ditto for the drag link. I know you found one that you cut and rewelded, but what drag link did you start with, what was it off of and is there a part number

5) and ditto again for the ball joints - do you have part numbers for those ?

Many thanks.

 

[kochevnik]

OK more info - the only company I have found so far that has the reman HF54050 steering gears so far is Haldex (Haldex) and the distribute thru NAPA and Carquest (among others). Someone mentioned that they found these thru NAPA but they were a lot of money.

And attached is a PDF catalog of these from Haldex. Bunch of other steering gears in there too (the HF54 is on page 16-16).

But I also found this seal kit for the HF54050 (page 16-23) and here :

Haldex Commercial Vehicle Systems

Now my question is - if a person could only find used HF54050s - do you think installing this seal kit is pretty much the same as a reman unit ? And how hard would it be to install this kit ?

Hope this is not too much info I am going to keep searching like a bloodhound until I get this all pinned down.

 

[kochevnik]

Whoops forgot the catalog info

Here is the link to the catalog :

http://www.haldex.com/North-America/Applications-Products/Literature/Brake--Suspension-Systems-Literature/Power-Steering/?pdf=%2FDocuments%2Fhbsna%2FPower_Steering%2FL00124W_Power_Steering_Gears_Catalog_2009.pdf

And a link to what looks like the Carquest info :

hd - 912 - 0912

And a 'service kit' for the HF54050 :

http://epi.hbsna.com/products/dept....584FA4698841ECE35&dept_id=3360&parent_id=2016

 

[gringeltaube]

Matt, thanks for that info, it can never be too much!
Glad to know these parts are "popular" and still available/serviceable.

Yes, I had bought some seal kits just in case and it is very easy for most of them to install them yourself. That goes for the ones for valve head, st. shaft, pitman shaft and small O-rings everywhere, to help keep your installation "dry"!
That is not the same as a complete reman of course, but you sure need to be lucky with a good-used takeout unit.

To respond your other Qs:

1) No part#, application unknown, sorry...
Guess any would do as long as it holds about 1qt, has 3 ports for 5/8"-3/4" hoses, an internal filter and a user-friendly filler neck/cap/dipstick....
Look around, combine imagination, will and common sense....: adapt, cut, weld, make it work....

2) Brake fluid reservoir: remote wtrans-lucidid wall (=>redneck level indicator...) Cap is normally vented and still missing a small hose connection for the whole system to be pressurized while deep-water-fording...!

3) Cut off 1.5" of the original (FoMoCo) and MIG-weld back together. Just finish it nicely and don't let the DOT inspectors find out....(!), although it's forged and perfectly weldable, as is the drag-link. (Do some testing first, if in doubt!)

4) D.link/ball joints: will try to locate part#s. There should be good take-out assys complete w/ sound joints where they salvage these steering gear boxes!? I did find my HF's complete w/everything attached. Ball joints are OEM and used... yes, but 9 out of 10 are still much better than what I could buy locally as a new replacement part!

Good luck finding the rest of ingredients!

G.

 

[kochevnik]

G : I have another question - safety related - if you are driving your truck and you some how manage to shut down your engine (in a panic stop by slamming on your brakes for example, without pushing in the clutch) - do you still have steering on your setup (since the PS pump is no longer working) and how does it compare to regular old hard to turn standard deuce steering ? Pretty important question I think.

 

[gringeltaube]

..... Ever tried to steer a Dodge Ram 2500 with the motor shut down?

Our case is more or less the same situation, you would have to "fight" the wheel with now only 3 1/2 to 4 turns stop to stop instead of almost 6 turns, stock.
Plus there is a considerable amount of slack now (about 1/4 turn with no direct action on the front wheels).
BUT... there still is a minimum chance of survival...
No seriously, opposite to "full hydro" this remains being a system with everything mechanically connected. If the pump quits working you just loose the "engine-powered" assist but not control over the vehicle! It certainly allows to bring your heavy toy to a safe stop, should the engine suddenly die.

G.