Preparing to get an LDS ready for the swap - questions

[cattlerepairman]

Preparing to get an LDS ready for the swap - progress report and questions

I have an ailing LDT in my truck that I suspect of having two "holy" pistons and will be swapped out for a later rebuild project.

I just brought home a takeout LDS-465-1A, overhauled by Continental. I am ready to switch it over for 2.5 ton configuration and I will put a new clutch kit and rear main seal on while I am at it.
Head gasket appears to be the old style (it has two weeping tabs that stick out and is otherwise flush with the outside of the head). The head gasket is dry all around, with the exception of one spot at a rear corner where there is a small amount of dried up leakage down the block. It does not look excessive.

I also need to replace the short coolant hoses...and here it goes:
- turbo is already off
- intake manifold has to come off to do the coolant hoses
- I will remove the injectors for cleaning and balancing and replace the fuel return hoses
- I will take the rocker covers off to set the valve clearances and remove the flame heater assembly.

I am basically an exhaust manifold removal away from tearing the heads off and doing a head gasket.
The question is...should I? Murphy says, if it ain't broke, don't fix it and many say that if you have a good runner, leave it alone. On the other hand, I would be mightily bummed out if the head gasket started leaking a month after I buttoned everything up inside the truck... $$$ are adding up fast, though.

Opinions?

 

[swbradley1]

I think you will be happier if you put a new set of head gaskets on it and go through them along with the pop-testing and adjusting the injectors.

I believe this is what Gimpy did to his a couple of months ago on his LDS. (Although he did need a gasket.)

 

[hndrsonj]

I would do the head gaskets....

 

[cattlerepairman]

Looked at the engine again and ordered the HG kit from Memphis. What's one more project at this stage...

 

[red]

head gaskets and upgrade to head studs, you're already there

 

[gringeltaube]

Looked at the engine again and ordered the HG kit from Memphis. What's one more project at this stage...

You did the right thing! The question is not if the old style gaskets will start leaking, but when - or how soon...!
So, some day you would have had to change them anyway. And believe me, it is a much easier- and cleaner job to do this with the engine in the crate, than installed, after some usage.


G.

 

[clinto]

I'd absolutely do the head gaskets. What's the joke about there being two kinds of multifuel owners: Those who have done head gaskets and those who are going to do head gaskets.

As long as it torn down that far and it's now smaller and easier to maneuver, I'd consider checking the bearings in the bottom end. Lot easier to do now.

And of course, now is the time to repaint and detail the engine compartment and if you're ever going to rebuild the steering box, now is the time to do it...............................

 

[rustystud]

Well if your down there checking the bottom end you might as well install the new style rod bolts. Just saying.

 

[cattlerepairman]

I searched and see that the bolts are available from tractor supply specialists such as Maibach and they are the 12-point style.
Which part # am I looking for? Or is it just for the 2-135 Oliver/White engine?

I hoped to avoid a full "refresh" on this engine, but...darn....heads will be off, bottom end will be open....
Should I consider new rod bearings and pull pistons for new rings? Help! Where to stop?

 

[rustystud]

I searched and see that the bolts are available from tractor supply specialists such as Maibach and they are the 12-point style.
Which part # am I looking for? Or is it just for the 2-135 Oliver/White engine?

I hoped to avoid a full "refresh" on this engine, but...darn....heads will be off, bottom end will be open....
Should I consider new rod bearings and pull pistons for new rings? Help! Where to stop?

I would pull the rod ends off to check the bearings ( your going to replace the rod bolts anyway right ? ) and also the mains. If there in spec then don't worry. Here are the rod bolts you need.

 

[cattlerepairman]

Just recovering from ordering the rod bolts. Needed to search around; they ranged between $23.20 and $25 A PIECE. Makes the ARP head studs look cheap (I did not order these). I finally managed to source the 12 point rod bolts for $16.45 each.

My original plan was to get a takeout running engine (which I did), do rear main and clutch, plunk it in and be back on the road in a couple of weeks.

Now I find myself doing head gaskets, freeze plugs, plane heads and re-seat valves, new rod bolts and at least a rod and main bearings check. Projects have a way of creeping up on you! And, yes, it makes sense, but it sure extends the time frame and stretches the budget. One thing to consider if you are in the same situation is that the parts cost for the "refresh" easily surpasses the purchase price of the complete running engine, and then some. Small stuff adds up.

I project the total parts (incl. engine purchase) and machine shop (heads, flywheel) cost for the refresh (incl. clutch and injector re-balance) to be about $ 2400-2600. That is what a rebuilt in-crate engine currently goes for.

Then I need to plan for doing the same (and possibly more) all over again for my sick LDT that will come out of my truck....wow $$...

 

[bprzyw]

Good luck, I hope all goes according to plan. I agree all the small stuff adds up mighty quick. Are you going to go with steel, stainless or brass expansion plugs (freeze plugs)?, Or might I ask which would be best?

 

[Jeepsinker]

Stainless or brass is your best bet.

 

[turnkey]

sounds like a plan and don't forget the repainting of the engine compartment....Just saying..

 

[cattlerepairman]

I also have new steering box seals...
If I manage to do all this before the snow falls, I'll paint, too!

 

[bprzyw]

Well, good luck. I have not even started my teardown.

 

[cattlerepairman]

After a slight battle with a single exhaust manifold nut, http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?142862-4-cylinder-lower-nut-exhaust-manifold-!!!! , the heads are finally off and went to the machine shop today, together with the flywheel.
The multifuel 5ton flywheel is the same as the Deuce flywheel, correct?



The heads were a bear to get off - a suggestion was to use a rubber mallet to break them loose. Well, with the biggest honking rubber mallet I could find, the heads were just laughing at me. I used the bolts that hold the lifting eyes on either end and a 6x6 block to pry one of each of the ends of the heads up with a crow bar, then used plastic log splitting wedges (those yellow ones) between the head and the old head gasket to get the head level and high enough for me to get my fingers underneath. I am not exactly a feeble guy, but it took all I had to lift AND wiggle/pry each head off the studs at the same time.


Now to the unpleasant surprises:

I could not see the holes this morning (no light in the dark garage at 6 am) so I just shot the pics. The engine is a "running takeout" and was reported to run "normal".

Hole #6


To my untrained eye, it looks like a honking hole in #6 and #4 and severe pitting in #1 and #3. On the up-side, #2 looks really good.

What do the experts think? Clean up with brake cleaner and shop towel and re-evaluate? Or think about piston and liner kits...I am the horse, by the way.

 

[bprzyw]

Your much farther than me. Where did you get the gasket kit? I plan on getting the one piece head gaskets from Gimpy, but do not know where to get the other gaskets. Good luck!!

 

[cattlerepairman]

Your much farther than me. Where did you get the gasket kit? I plan on getting the one piece head gaskets from Gimpy, but do not know where to get the other gaskets. Good luck!!

I have a head gasket from m-35tom and a complete headgasket kit from Memphis equipment. Yes, $$, but when you think of the alternative - time spent cutting your own (where you can), sourcing the one or two you can't McGyver, and using RTV for the others....I think it is the price to pay, given all the other tasks that need to be done around a job like this. I can't do either extreme (have someone do the work for me OR pretend I'm retired and make this my year's project).

 

[bprzyw]

Sorry, was it pn# 5702678? $266.68