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propane or natural gas injection

heavymetal land

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silver creek new york
anybody out there injecting propane or natural gas in their 5 tons ? I have a few ideas i am gonna try ,i know most of the after market ones for non turbo engines work from exhaust pressure to vary amount injected ,i wondered if any one has their own set up or an after market one they have tryed
 

deathrowdave

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falmouth, ky
Propane is a way better choice , it is a liquid and only you be injecting the vapors from the tank . It would take a giant tank to get the same amount of usage as a Liquid Propane tank . Propane has an expansion rate of 270 to 1 . 1 gallon of Propane Liquid equals 270 gallons of vapors @ 2520 btu. or 36.19 cubic foot of vapors . Natural gas is only 1010 btu per cubic ft. Very hard to compress natural gas into a liquid at home !!!! Have fun !!!
 

heavymetal land

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silver creek new york
i agree for me personally propane is the way to go ,my friend thats bobbing a 5 ton has free gas from his well and is thinking about buying a compressor ,it's not to hard to set up on a turbocharged truck ,there are alot around here , but i personally don't know any body that has done it on a non turbo , i did alittle test on my 6.2 chevy and it really helps on the hills, to much propane and the motor sounds like a spark knock ,just looking to see if some one has made their own set up out of old parts on the cheap !
 

heavymetal land

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silver creek new york
wow i thought for sure i would get a how to guide for a propane injection on my 855 cummins ,my line of thinking is that it would improve mileage increase hp and improve combustion on blended fuels . I have 4 m 923 5 tons i guess one will have to be the test bed when i get a little time ,hope to find a proven system before then !
 

deathrowdave

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falmouth, ky
Your propane needs to heated and vaporized !! I don' t know if you are doing this or not !!! But taking straight from the tank causes the propane to cool because of the pressure drop from tank to atmosphere . When this happens without heating it it has a tendency to return to liquid , this is the sound you are hearing in your engine not spark knock!!! The liquid is not compressable , causing knocking sounds!!! Hard on you engine pistons !!! Could cause ventilition holes !!!
 

heavymetal land

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silver creek new york
i figured that the spark knock sound was an effect of too much propane. I figured out a warming system using a heat exchanger i took off an old fire truck pump system and it's hard to get exact temperatures on the propane when driving down the road under load . I thought that i was feeding such a small amount into the intake that it had to be in vapor form ! I took the propane regulator ,and solenoid off an 8 hp walk behind floor buffer .i didn't think i could send so much propane through that system that it would be in liquid form at the cylinder . I figured I was hearing pre detonation due to to much fuel ! i will keep on reserching ! keep the input coming ! thanks
 

heavymetal land

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silver creek new york
anything i found so far in the after market has it's metering controlled by exhaust pressure and pretty high priced ! my direct intake injection using a small engine regulator seems to work ok ,i can feel seat off the pants performance ,but i can't give you exact numbers !
 

jdknech

Active member
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Location
Jeffersonville, Indiana
anything i found so far in the after market has it's metering controlled by exhaust pressure and pretty high priced ! my direct intake injection using a small engine regulator seems to work ok ,i can feel seat off the pants performance ,but i can't give you exact numbers !
I am looking to make it farther on the doller then 5mpg on straight diesel.. has it improved your MPG at all?
 

cumminsbandit

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Lake Mills, WI
I made a homemade LP setup for my 06 cummins out of a 20lb propane tank, 12v shutoff solenoid, adjustable regulator, and some 3/8 fuel line to the intake just in front of the turbo. The knocking sound is because the LP wants to detonate earlier than diesel fuel. Thus making an advance in timing affect. Like a "timing knock" from the added timing. I did many tests to make sure i wasnt dumping liquid LP into the engine and no matter what i did i couldn't get any liquid LP to come out of my setup. I made this system mainly for horse power but, I did set the regulator to 1lb and left it on wile on the interstate on a 25mi trip to get food one night and my truck showed that i was getting 45mpg! This was fine until i ran out of propane half way home... so i dont think this was very economic using a full 20lb tank in a 40-50mi trip!

As for the hp, i set the regulator at 16 lbs and after i'd get about 15psi of boost I would hit the toggle and it felt like a car ran into the back of us! Boost went to 50lbs and the exhaust would go pure black. I was able to put the truck on a dyno and my $25 LP setup gained me 110hp!!! It also lost me 250ft-lbs of torque witch also leads me to belive there was too much timing but, it did help on the high end.

The one thing i would like to address is to watch your EGT's !!!! Too much causes very high exhaust temps! I did lots of pulling with LP and my exhaust would be 1600+ WAY TO HOT! In the end, i won my share of pulls and got the 3 melted pistons to prove it.

I think if you could find a good way to control the way you use it, one could pull some better mpg's out of anything you use it with! Would be interesting to see how an 855 would react. Cant help but to think it would drink the stuff to be able to actually notice anything but, would love to hear someones findings on this. The 6.2 is a high compression engine at 20:1 and the knocking effect could be amplified because of it. Let me know your findings on anything propane related, love to here everyone's experiences with it!
 

jdknech

Active member
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Location
Jeffersonville, Indiana
well, i guess I will experament a bit.. i will get a 4psi hobbs switch, and a adjustable regulator (set to 1.5psi to start) and see what it does... i hope some MPG gains.. i am builing a camper for my M932, but it doesnt do me much good if i cant afford to take it anywhere.. lol
 

heavymetal land

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silver creek new york
I have done some quick testing and i have seemed to pick up a few mpg , but i run the truck local mostly so its hard to say how much mpg i have gained . What i like is the added power on the long hills ! I never got a liquid out of my tests only predetonation from a little to much propane! Rember some times less is more!
 

GreenBull

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Location
SE Michigan
I'm running a 30% stale gas 70% WMO mix in my M1028 and I am getting some carbon. Less now that I use more gas. I've cleaned it in the past with a hot engine/garden hose mist treatment with good result but I'm going to try propane fumigation on the truck for reducing emissions and for the steam cleaning effect that propane provides. I'm going to do mine with a solenoid valve, adjustable regulator and a 20 lb tank and use it at 55mph cruise only.
 

Diecorpse

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193
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Location
Grand Island, Nebraska
Has anyone looked into hydrogen? I seen online, a book that shows how to make hydrogen safely and all the benefits from it. The kit is water with steel plates that have electrical wires to it. The only time it will produce hydrogen is when there is electricity supplied to the plates to create the chemical reaction. Apparently this kit was installed on a big rig that never achieved more than 7 mpg. After it would get 14mpg. I know it's not a huge boost, but just enough to completely achieve 100% fuel combustion. I seen vidoes on youtube where it was even on the news. You build the kit and hook it up, so you can do it how you want to. I thought about getting the book on how to fab this kit, but I need to fix my truck first though.
 

jdknech

Active member
1,095
4
38
Location
Jeffersonville, Indiana
It's a hoax.. Better known as "browns gas" don't waste your money.. I did.. And all a gained from it was the learned facts that - people lie, and that if you leave it on, it will drain your battery's in about 2 hours (on a jeep XJ) I ran it for 6mo, and didn't even notice 1mpg gain. Just my 2 cents.
 
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