Putting disc brakes on a deuce

[Section8]

I agree the rotor as are pricey but that is all I would want to buy new along wth brake pads. The rest of the brake system I would get from a donor truck if I can find one like a Topkick or a F700.
I sourced a heavy truck parts salvage place up here and I could get a complete system possibly even rotors if they aren't in bad shape for 2000 grand including labour for removal from the truck. If I went to do it myself it would be 1500 bucks for everything. Boost, calipers, rotors if usable, brake lines, even the brake pedal if I want it!!

 

[Section8]

Just another thought that has been rattling around in my cranium.
Why is it that with this type of modification the use of the F550 calipers is done?
If you were to take the system off of an existing truck such as an F700 with the proper bolt pattern, why would you not use those calipers?
I am a little perplexed about why the F550 is the choice for the caliper.
Course it could just be cuz they are piece together systems made from scratch instead of a donor system.
I don't know....

 

[M211guy]

I will get a picture of what they used..... Lots of good ideas here for sure.... Of course I'm not restoring one truck....... I have 11 to do!

 

[M211guy]

And they just used original master for the one disc brake

 

[YkDave]

Holy crap!

X10 on that setup being a death trap, thats just plain ol retarded to have a single pinion brake on a bush buggy, let alone someting that carries a pile of people!

The braking power must be pretty weak (or it is super hard on brake pads), but unlike mentioned above, the loss of an axleshaft isnt going to make you lose all your braking. If you break an axleshaft on that diff, the leadaxle wont have and braking power, but the rear axle will still brake through the driveline (and if you lock up the rear driveline, your asking to destroy the sprag drive for the front shaft)

Now, worst case scenario, you didnt know that you had a snapped shaft in the lead axle, and you lost either one of the rear shafts... well, your going for a fun ride then!

I agree upgrading to disc brake all around does sound like a complete waste of time and money. But in this case, something really has to be done, and when your starting with literally nothing, you may as well modernize it a bit

 

[M211guy]

This is what they had

 

[rtk]

WOW , I think the way to go is the donor vehicle route , you would at least get all the big pieces . Once you FAB one up the rest would be easier . I would love to have been a fly on the wall when they came up with this BRAKE ? SYSTEM ! wonder if any ALCOHOL was involved .

 

[steve6x6x6]

Change the axles out.

 

[Section8]

Changing the axles out would be another option.
I personally don't have that kind of cash.
I have other plans for my axles in regards to ring and pinion ratios. I am not that familiar whether or not there are better gearing options for the rockwells. Except the high dollar ones that ouverson (I think) offers.
So 1500 to 2000 grand for a whole system sounds good to me instead of of just one axle and then still having to get everything else to complete the system.
No offense meant here!if I wasn't a step from living on the street all the time I would diffinantly get those axles!!!
That is sickening to think that people were riding on those trucks with only a pinion brake!!
In my opinion they sare only good as a parking brake or assist brake in emergency situations!!
Insert cranial ponderings of proportioning valve or secondary system actuated at a set psi for added brake power.

 

[YkDave]

whats the price on those suckers!? (whos axles?)

Either way, even if you got them for a smokin retarded deal, hes looking at 24 axles just to do the rears in his trucks, thats probably not even close to being an option!

 

[Varyag]

Change the axles out.

I would give my left testis for that setup.

 

[Derrickl112]

So 1500 to 2000 grand for a whole system sounds good to me

$1,500,000 to $2,000,000?!?!

 

[nattieleather]

The axle swap on the GMC is not practical. Fabing up disks would be less expensive, but if you plan on doing 12 trucks I hope they gave those trucks to you so you are at least not out any money right now. As for the brake system they went with.... Not totally safe, but I also would bet that these trucks never got over 5-10 Mph on the tour. The idea was to take people through the scenary and let them enjoy it not race through at 50 mph and see it in a flash. When you stop the drive line you stop the vehicle a lot faster than if you try stoping the wheels. Though I think those brakes were a little under powered for the task at hand.

 

[hendersond]

It is actually amazing what the pinion mounted brake does on a monster truck. At least they have 2.

I'm trying to figure this out. When the truck is rolling down a hill and the torque is from the tires on the road, it is then coming thru the differential to the driveshaft. Don't you have 6.17:1 less brake force than if it were in an axle????

If your engine torque is multiplied, isn't your braking force divided if it is on the pinion?

Remember in the early monster trucks with open differentials when they braked on a turn and the light inside wheel turned backwards? I suppose the same thing would happen to the light wheel on a side hill.

 

[o1951]

View attachment 415984View attachment 415985View attachment 415986View attachment 415987

This is what they had

Sure cuts down on brake maintainance.

I might think about keeping the drive shaft brake as a parking / emergency brake, but think using it as a service brake is nuts.

 

[hendersond]

I'm with you 100% on that idea.

 

[M211guy]

Well i am going to keep one truck for sure... so i will fab up something for sure!!!!

 

[YkDave]

yes pinion/driveline brakes are pretty effective, but they have their limitations, especially when your running a single brake on a 13,000lb truck full of tourists!

But in reality, theirs nothing safe at all about running a single pinion brake on a 13,000lb truck, especially if it see's any kind of speed or the road...

Even a monster truck wouldnt be able to get away with such an abortion. they are required to have a front and rear driveline brake, lockers recommended (like mentioned above, in low traction, youll only lock up one wheel on an open diff), they are also required to have billet steel rotors (not just some cast piece of crap off of a pickup LOL) and they are 10x the rotor that is on that truck.

Another thing to consider, is that using a driveline brake, the brake rotor is spinning much faster than an outboard/wheel brake would. These guys are pretty lucky that they didnt kill anyone from a failed rotor.

For the deuce:
15mph= 750rpm driveshaft speed, 121rpm wheel speed
50mph= 2500rpm driveshaft speed, 405rpm wheel speed

Even on a regular pickup, with lets say stock 31" tires, at 70mph, you still only have a wheel speed of around 700rpm

Its pretty easy to see how a cheap cast rotor from a pickup/med duty truck will blow up in your face when used as a driveline brake. the rotors were never intended to be used at such a high rpm.

Keep it safe, and build it right if you want to keep it set up with driveline brakes. If your doing some back yard engineering, i would highly suggest you do wheel brakes, they are much more forgiving. especially if you intend to sell the trucks at a later date. I know i sure as **** wouldnt want my name behind some half azzed brake system!

 

[rtk]

I agree YkDave , The problem as I see it is they put unsuspecting tourists in danger , bad enough WE do it to ourselves with our MV's at times , but those people put tourists lives in there hands over some halfa_ _ brake system . This is what we are trying to prevent with the help of sites such as this and others . The one message that comes through on SS is SAFE operation of our MV's . AS a former Accident Investigator , this little deal would probably have gotten REAL UGLYfor somebody ,as we used to say ,somebody is getting the free ride in the cruiser .

 

[YkDave]

x10 They are really lucky one of those rotors didnt blow up and send shrapnel through the box. they could have easily killed a bunch of people like that.

For the regular joe blow, it would be merely a "crap your pants" situation and likely the worst thing to happen would be cleaning out your drawers and repairing the box floor after it was destroyed. It really makes me wonder how the heck they could even operate the trucks like that, you would think they would need to pass a safety to be able to haul tourists? (at lest they would up here). especially if they had insurance...

Theirs no way in **** anyone would pass that on a safety, maybe if it was a personal truck the mechanic might be persuaded to pass it for a couple dollars, but i dont see anyone passing it for any reason given its use!