Question of understanding: Decommissioning of HMMWV in the US forces

[frauhansen]

I've had a question for some time.

From my German/Swiss point of view, a vehicle that is taken out of service is removed from active service.
It may still be used in non-critical areas, but no longer in active service in front (near) areas.

This also has something to do with the supply of spare parts. The material is used until it falls apart, new parts are not ordered.

But now I see the HMMWV still active. Or am I making a mistake?

The JLTV, which was praised as the successor to the HMMWV. It is far larger and far less flexible. Or so I think.
And it's also too small as a battlefront cab. And the MRAP too big/high/expensive.
There should be something new, a direct successor. And probably from AM General again. And the first pictures looked like a redesign of the HMMWV with new means and methods. But old size and basic idea. Now probably adapted to new threat situations in which our aluminum cans are no longer sufficient.

That's what I know. My problem is... I can't find much on the net about the end of the JLTV. I can find even less about the new HMMWV. A few pictures and a 1.3min long contribution on Youtube. That was it.

You are closer to the topic than I am here in Switzerland. Do you know more?

 

[Coug]

From what I've seen, most larger military equipment like vehicles, as long as they are still current use, have a 20 year expected life.

At 10 years or so in service they go through the rebuild/reset where they have a set budget to bring back to like new condition (I think at one point the HMMWV was something like $40k budget, so if nothing was actually needed they'd get full engine/transmission rebuilds and whatnot)
Then at about 20 years they get sold off.

At 20 years they are disposed of. Many will go through other government programs to be distributed to agencies that could make use of them, but excess from that can be disposed of in other manners, such as destruction if deemed "unsafe" for the general public to be in possession of, or stripped of anything that might make it still a military type asset (such as armor) and then sold off to the public.

My understanding is the JLTV wasn't officially adopted until around 2016, so it's still going to be a long time before any of them make their way out through the surplus market.

 

[Autonomy_Lost]

The HMMWV isnt going anywhere anytime soon. It works for what it needs to do.

Look at the M2HB 50 cal. In service since 1933, because it just works.

Just my opinion.

 

[frauhansen]

I must have expressed myself imprecisely.
I don't mean the vehicle as an individual, I mean the system.

If I am interpreting this correctly (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humvee_replacement_process) then the HMMWV as a system is dead for both the Army and the USMC. No more new orders after 2012.
Replace with JLTV and MRAP.

But can I even replace the HMMWV with JLTV, MRAP and possibly civilian trucks?
What became of the HMMWV Saber (https://www.amgeneral.com/what-we-do/vehicles-chassis/humvee-saber/)

How do you manage to leave a vehicle system in the fighting force without adequate reordering/spare parts supply?
Well, a part will shrink along with the troop strength.
But what do I do with the entire logistical system behind it? At some point I will run out of critical parts.
What happens when the troops have to grow again? The next conflicts are damn near! Replace all HMMWVs with far more expensive JLTVs? Especially since I don't see that these can completely replace the HMMWV.

 

[Autonomy_Lost]

I must have expressed myself imprecisely.
I don't mean the vehicle as an individual, I mean the system.

If I am interpreting this correctly (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humvee_replacement_process) then the HMMWV as a system is dead for both the Army and the USMC. No more new orders after 2012.
Replace with JLTV and MRAP.

But can I even replace the HMMWV with JLTV, MRAP and possibly civilian trucks?
What became of the HMMWV Saber (https://www.amgeneral.com/what-we-do/vehicles-chassis/humvee-saber/)

How do you manage to leave a vehicle system in the fighting force without adequate reordering/spare parts supply?
Well, a part will shrink along with the troop strength.
But what do I do with the entire logistical system behind it? At some point I will run out of critical parts.
What happens when the troops have to grow again? The next conflicts are damn near! Replace all HMMWVs with far more expensive JLTVs? Especially since I don't see that these can completely replace the HMMWV.

Humvees are still in production by AM General, and are expected to stay in service until 2050.

 

[Wolfen]

Interesting question.

 

[SCSG-G4]

The HMMWV isnt going anywhere anytime soon. It works for what it needs to do.

Look at the M2HB 50 cal. In service since 1933, because it just works.

Just my opinion.

Ma Deuce was first built in the early 20's. There was a story posted a couple of years ago about one made in 1923 that was NOT being returned to a unit in the sandbox after it was sent back to be brought up to the new quick barrel change configuration. Reason - it was a three digit serial number and would be going to a museum! "Retired' after almost a century of use.

 

[Mogman]

As I understand it the JLTV is somewhat of a failure and a big chunk of money that was allocated to buy them has been re-directed to the purchase and or refurbishment of more HMMWVs.
There are also allot of foreign sales of the HMMWV.

Joint Light Tactical Vehicle Funds Redirected By Army To Buy New Humvees

The US Army wants to divert funding away from its Joint Light Tactical Vehicle (JLTV) program to continue its plans to recapitalize older Humvees.

www.thedrive.com

 

[frauhansen]

Ahhh, then there's been a big misunderstanding on my part. I was assuming a decommissioning. Then the page I linked is probably out of date. Especially if I understand thedrive's article correctly. Too bad it is not clear when the article is from.

Okay, if AM Generel continues to produce and the armed forces are also supplied with new material, then things look different.
Then I also realize why Saber has become so quiet.

I find it interesting that the JLTV is not being dispensed with. Which I welcome in principle, because it has its justification, especially with regard to IEDs, and relieves the HMMWV, which is simply unsuitable for this situation.

 

[Coug]

I found here that there was a contract extension as of mid 2022 to keep building them to at least the end of this year. Unless something changes that would put them in service for at least the next 20 years.

AM General Awarded $733M Contract Modification for Humvee Variant Production - GovCon Wire

Looking for the latest GovCon News? Check out our story: AM General Awarded $733M for Army Humvee Variant Production. Click to read more!

www.govconwire.com

AM General has secured a $732.7 million contract modification to manufacture expanded capacity vehicle models of the U.S. Army’s High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle.


The award would extend the performance period under AM General’s firm-fixed-price requirements contract by two years and four months, according to a notice posted Friday on SAM.gov.

The notice listed a dozen Humvee ECV variants that will include Automotive Improvement Program and Reliability Enhancement Vehicle components.

Humvee is a lightweight, four-wheeled tactical vehicle that runs on diesel and supports the Army’s combat and combat service support units.

AM General modernizes and maintains more than 160,000 Humvees through a public-private partnership agreement with the service branch and Red River Army Depot.

The company will perform work under the modification through Dec. 31, 2024, the Department of Defense said Wednesday.

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

The JLTV was not meant to replace the hmmwv, the hmmwv for the USMC is still set for 2040
The JLTV has had serious NMC isssues, so bad in fact the Army took JLTV funds and purchased more new HMMWV’s.
rolling stock in the Military is NOT like aircraft, they don’t develop a new platform every 10-12yrs.
But, when something works? Like let’s say the Jeep? 1940-1985, we keep it, improve upon it…
The hmmwv is no exception , 1985-?
the hmmwv has also undergone quite a makeover from its 7700gvw days, it’s performing missions it was never designed for.

 

[mgFray]

While far from authoritative, the couple of people I've talked to (involved in Army logistics at a unit level) have all said they've been told to expect the HMMWV to be used heavily for domestic uses and parts to be available until 2050. International usage and especially conflict zones, they're unsure the status.

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

While far from authoritative, the couple of people I've talked to (involved in Army logistics at a unit level) have all said they've been told to expect the HMMWV to be used heavily for domestic uses and parts to be available until 2050. International usage and especially conflict zones, they're unsure the status.

Anything soft skinned is not allowed to leave a base…All tactical vehicles now have to be armored or Armor ready.
what’s interesting is the IDF uses soft skinned A2’s all Over the palce….they don’t seem to care.

 

[Dave2018]

I've had a question for some time.

From my German/Swiss point of view, a vehicle that is taken out of service is removed from active service.
It may still be used in non-critical areas, but no longer in active service in front (near) areas.

This also has something to do with the supply of spare parts. The material is used until it falls apart, new parts are not ordered.

But now I see the HMMWV still active. Or am I making a mistake?

The JLTV, which was praised as the successor to the HMMWV. It is far larger and far less flexible. Or so I think.
And it's also too small as a battlefront cab. And the MRAP too big/high/expensive.
There should be something new, a direct successor. And probably from AM General again. And the first pictures looked like a redesign of the HMMWV with new means and methods. But old size and basic idea. Now probably adapted to new threat situations in which our aluminum cans are no longer sufficient.

That's what I know. My problem is... I can't find much on the net about the end of the JLTV. I can find even less about the new HMMWV. A few pictures and a 1.3min long contribution on Youtube. That was it.

You are closer to the topic than I am here in Switzerland. Do you know more?

Can you post the pics you found. First I've heard. Like to see the future.
Dave

 

[Curtisje]

Anything soft skinned is not allowed to leave a base…All tactical vehicles now have to be armored or Armor ready.
what’s interesting is the IDF uses soft skinned A2’s all Over the palce….they don’t seem to care.

Those were the Iraq/Afghanistan rules. They do not apply universally across the globe. Here in the Corps we're moving to a lighter infantry and equipping them with the ULTV.

MARINE CORPS SYSTEMS COMMAND BEGINS FIELDING CUTTING-EDGE ULTRA LIGHT TACTICAL VEHICLE

Marine Corps Systems Command has begun fielding the new Ultra Light Tactical Vehicle, or ULTV, reaching initial operational capability and marking a significant milestone in the Corps’ Force Design

www.marcorsyscom.marines.mil

And by the way, we still have HMMWV's in use with the 6.2 diesel engine. Close to 30 year old vehicles by now in some cases.

Hope the info helps a bit.

 

[frauhansen]

Can you post the pics you found. First I've heard. Like to see the future.
Dave

I had assumed that HMMWV had come to an end in 2006 and would be replaced by JLTV.
So I was surprised when AM General announced the HMMWV Saber.
Here is the short video I was referring to.

then I found this

And the AM General website: https://www.amgeneral.com/what-we-do/vehicles-chassis/humvee-saber/

In summary, I can't find much more substantial information about the vehicle. I don't know if it ever went into series production or if anyone ever bought it. At home or abroad.

Maybe it was just finished after a few trade fairs.

 

[Coug]

I had assumed that HMMWV had come to an end in 2006 and would be replaced by JLTV.
So I was surprised when AM General announced the HMMWV Saber.
Here is the short video I was referring to.

then I found this

And the AM General website: https://www.amgeneral.com/what-we-do/vehicles-chassis/humvee-saber/

In summary, I can't find much more substantial information about the vehicle. I don't know if it ever went into series production or if anyone ever bought it. At home or abroad.

Maybe it was just finished after a few trade fairs.

Supposedly there was a report of a saber in ukraine launching drones of some type, but I can't find where I heard that.
I did find an article about that saber version, so it wouldn't surprise me if there were some being field tested over there

Humvee Saber fires Switchblade UAVs or stops kamikaze drones

Humvee Saber Blade is a multi-purpose vehicle based on the well-known HMMWV tactical vehicle, integrated with a wide range of Switchblade 300/600 system.

bulgarianmilitary.com

 

[Mogman]

It looks like just a re-bodied HMMWV, same crap drivetrain.

 

[Coug]

It looks like just a re-bodied HMMWV, same crap drivetrain.

basically, but they do rate the engine at 205hp instead of 190hp like the older turbo trucks.