rear hub seals on 14 bolt ff

[2deuce]

I'm doing a rear brake job as the seal leaked oil onto the brakes. After pulling everything apart I can only find an outer hub seal and that is all that the tm shows unless I'm missing it. How is oil kept out of the hub bearings? When I took this apart oil poured out of the hub. There was no grease in there. Looks like that is the design and if so that seal has a harder job to do than I expected. If there was a seal on the axle shaft, that oil could be kept out and grease would be used on the bearings. I better check the breather to make sure that is clear too. I'm replacing the shoes on the other side next so I'll check the oil situation there soon. This just didn't look right to me, I'm more familiar with older trucks that have 2 seals sealing each hub.

This hub has been apart before, possibly for the same leaking problem. Someone had massed silicone on the axle on the inside of the axle flange. Looks like that didn't have much chance to work, but I'm wondering is there is another solution?

Thanks

 

[welpro222]

Speedi sleeve on spindle or off road design hub seals

 

[welpro222]

Oil is suppose to be there

 

[2deuce]

The sealing area on the spindle looks good and I saw the ORD seals. I wish I had those to finish this tomorrow. I just have regular seals. Oil in there does appear to be the design and it looks like an inevitable leak. As oil flows into the hub there is no way for it to exit except out the seal and once that hub gets half full there will be oily shoes. Probably happens before it gets half full of oil. I think I'll grease up the bearings and keep the oil level on the lower side of full in the housing.

Thanks

 

[welpro222]

Its designed this way to keep bearings oiled. A bad seal or bad sealing surface will leak. Just like the seal in the front of the engine or transmission, in fact its just like your rear transfer case seal. People put alittle grease in these when they r new and need some lube before the oil gets to them.

 

[cucvrus]

It is good practice to put grease on the out hub rear bearings. Oil and grease will mix together. Just pulling it apart and replacing the seals and refilling the rear with gear oil can be scary. I seen a guy do that once on an M1028 and the rear locked up on the right side about 3 miles from his house. Ruined the entire rear. As a caution I always put wheel bearing grease in the rear hub bearings. Cheap insurance. Also I have been told to jack up one side and let it sit that way for 5 minutes. Then let it down. Check the oil and refill it. Then jack up the other side and let it sit that way again. And then refill it. I don't do that. That sounds strange. And I think you could over fill it causing another issue will leakage. I am not an expert but the grease and running it on jack stands works for me. Then I recheck the fluid level fill it if needed and send it on its way. Does that sound right?

 

[Recovry4x4]

The wheelbearings getting over filled happens quite often with the offroad crowd. The engineers considered this. Once the vehicle is level, any gear oil that migrated in excess, just drains back into the rear via the spindle bore, just like it came. The wheelbearing grease upon assembly is an excellent way to keep you rolling down the road.

 

[Chaski]

Yep, any excess oil just goes back into the spindle bore into the tube and back to the center section once the pickup is level.

Personally I do not grease the bearings. I just assemble the hub, squirt a little oil on the bearings, properly set the bearing preload with the spindle nuts, slide in the axles, put the wheels back on and torque everything. Then I fill it up with oil and get it on the ground. Jack up one side quite a bit, put it down, then jack up the other side quite a bit and put it down. Put roughly a cup of oil to top it off and head down the road. You don't have to top it off between "tilts" as the spindle protudes so far into the hub that when you lift that side the oil cannot run back out as the spindle hole will be above the oil level.

 

[2deuce]

I'm not an engineer but I don't like that design, especially for off road. One small seal surface keeping oil off the brake shoes and that seal surface is subject to sand, dirt and water. No wonder mine leaked. If the oil was kept out and grease was used the seal wouldn't have a liquid to keep in. Old trucks had felt hub seals and sometimes a nut seal to keep the oil in the diff, you greased the bearings.

For oil to run back into the spindle, you will have an oil level directly on the seal area. I would think that is not good. I'm looking at the ORD seals. If I don't use them this time and I have another leak, I definitely will get them. This time I'm going to keep my diff oil level down a little to keep oil from running into the hub unless I'm on a high tilt and pack a lot of grease on the bearings for lube.

Thanks

 

[Recovry4x4]

FWIW, all somewhat heavy trailers and big rigs use oil bath bearings. Heck, this seal design has been keeping oil in engines for decades, can't be all bad.

 

[2deuce]

I think my truck was leaking because it was used for years as an offroad truck only. It was a national refuge truck that that saw alot of mud and sand use on a refuge that was very small. Heavy trailers and big rigs don't see off road use. I'm probably more worried because my truck is leaking. Does the dana 70 have oil bath bearings? ORD has a seal specially made for this axle that says to me that this leak is a problem.

 

[Chaski]

A full floating Dana rear axle is identical in seal design to a 14 bolt. The AAM 10.5/11.5" axles that have been used in Dodge and Chevy 3/4 and one ton pickups are also similar, but they use two part seals identical to the ones ORD sells. I had a two part seal sieze together and spin on the hub. It did not destroy anything other than the seal when it failed, but the leak was epic. That was on an 11 year old AAM 11.5" axle. If your spindles sealing surface isn't pitted or grooved I'd just put it together with a conventional seal and enjoy another decade or three of leak free service. If the spindle is at all questionable I'd get the two part seals that ORD is selling. The AAM, Dana and Corporate 14 bolt full floating hubs are all oil bath.

 

[welpro222]

I installed the ORD seals on my 14 bolt when I rebuilt it a few month ago. They are very tight when installing the hub assembly back on. Make sure you spin the hub and tight in very good to seat the seal. Then back of the spindle nut and tighten to specs. I did this process 2 times to ensure they were seated. They seem like very good seals, I was able to remove them to install new bearings and reinstall the same seals again.

 

[2deuce]

How did you get the seal out without damaging it? The old seals that were in mine were a real pain to get out too. The cheap seal pullet I got couldn't pull anything that wasn't ready to fall out. Putting seals in the hub is always a challenge for me too. Any pointers are appreciated, even a good tool recommendation.

Thanks

 

[welpro222]

The original style seals get damaged every time during removal, I beat the scrap out of mine removing them. The ORD seals are very strong and have a lip that you can get a or flat screwdriver or chisel underneath it and pry it up or tap it out from the inside of the hub. The lip is there to prevent you from driving the seal into the hub too far I believe. I coat the outer part of the seal (metal part) with RTV before I reinstall them so they get a good seal against the hub surface.

Installing: Hold seal flat with surface of the hub and use a small hammer and begin tap it around the seal until it starts seating into the hub. This can be tricky sometimes, but once it starts seating into the hub its a breeze. If you have a large enough socket, use that to tap it in.

 

[welpro222]

Another easy way to get any seal in is to lightly grind the outside inner part of the seal and put a beveled edge on it. I had to do this when I installed the front crank seal. This helped me drive the seal into its seat very easy in a tight spot. There is plenty of sealing surface on the out part of the seal, so I had no worries of it leaking. If for some reason you damage the sealing surface on the hub and/or seal, just apply a light coat of RTV and then install. I let the RTV cure for 24 hours before adding oil.