Red's deuce/camper project

[red]

It was also pointed out that for the cost of repairs and other upgrades down the road (power steering, brakes, etc) I could upgrade to a 5 ton

 

[DavidWymore]

How much longer is it? Seems like you could take a foot or two out of the driveshaft.

 

[welldigger]

The 5 ton transfer case is about double the size of a deuce transfer case if that helps with scale.

 

[DavidWymore]

Yeah, I've been around 900s a little. Guess the trans is probably 6-12" longer, jack shaft is probably a little longer too...

A 900 is a Cadillac compared to a deuce. If that's what you want, big tires, power steering and all, that's probably the way to go.

If if I could have anything it would be an 800 series with a 400 Cummims and big singles...

 

[red]

How much longer is it? Seems like you could take a foot or two out of the driveshaft.

Total length was about 6ft. Problem is that would make the driveshaft from the tcase to the middle axle about a foot long, too short.

Other problem is with the transfer case being a driver side drop, for both the front and rear output. The front can be taken care of, but in the rear axles the diff sits in the center, and can't be really modified to get the driveshaft lined up.

I like the look of the older 800 series 5 tons

 

[red]

after the meet and greet yesterday, drivetrain length discovery and cost similarities of completing the deuce or upgrading to a 5 ton I was leaning heavily towards the heavier duty truck. Taking into account that I put 4-5 thousand miles on the deuce last year, and will be driving that much or more on a regular basis, the fuel economy penalty with the 5 ton hits pretty hard. 5-8mpg compared to the 10-12 I got with the old multifuel adds up, possibly even better with the dt466.

So, that had me looking at trans options again. Forgot about the spicer 6453 from the M800 series 5 tons. Rated for the 600+ft/lbs of torque coming from their motors, similar in size to the spicer 3053a from the deuce, and similar overdrive at .78.

Found a place to get the trans for $450, but the clutch kit is high at $750. Gotta find one for better than that.

 

[red]

Little distraction post of pictures. When I was stationed up here in Utah a few years ago this is what I was dealing with on a daily basis











Normal days work on the demolition ranges. Lots of fun out there!!



Back to truck stuff. Have a clutch kit and the Spicer 6453 trans from the M8xx series 5 ton lined up from Jeepsinker, along with the air intake assembly from a 5 ton to open up the engine bay a little bit more for ease of maintenance.

Found a couple DT466 engines, just gotta wait until a paycheck or 2 arrives before it's ordered. So about a month before the drivetrain parts are on the way.

I want to pull the cab off for the swap for a couple reasons. Gives us more room to work on everything, and would be a great time to insulate the underside of the cab, firewall, and the engine bay.

 

[welldigger]

Another idea as far as a drive train swap could be a 12 or 24v 6bt cummins with a ford zf-6 transmission. It's plenty strong for a deuce and has a .72 overdrive. Shouldn't be super hard to locate one since they were available in ford superduties for over 10 years.

 

[rustystud]

Another idea as far as a drive train swap could be a 12 or 24v 6bt cummins with a ford zf-6 transmission. It's plenty strong for a deuce and has a .72 overdrive. Shouldn't be super hard to locate one since they were available in ford superduties for over 10 years.

I'd stay clear of the "ZF" transmission Jake. I've worked on these transmissions a lot and they are "extremely" expensive to repair. The German engineering is great, but just like everything else they go overboard on the design. Remember the Tiger tanks of WWII . They where the best tank made, but too complicated to fix and keep running without a huge support team behind them.

 

[welldigger]

I only mentioned it because they are pretty reliable and very strong. I do agree that getting a rebuilt one is expensive. Been there, done that. But if he can find one that doesn't scratch when shifted they are usually good to go. Aside from the irritating gear noise.

 

[red]

The ZF is a good transmission, little high on the pricetag but does give a better overdrive.

Going to see how the DT466 likes the .78 overdrive of the spicer 6453 first at 55-60mph. At 60 that puts me at 2300rpm, 55 at 2100. Highway speeds here in Utah are a little bit slower than in Texas, only being passed at 70mph compared to being passed by 18 wheelers at 80-90mph.

DT466 engine, Spicer 6453 trans, 5 ton intake, and hydraulic assist power steering through an HF54 box coming up soon! After that it's brake upgrade time.

 

[rustystud]

The ZF is a good transmission, little high on the pricetag but does give a better overdrive.

Going to see how the DT466 likes the .78 overdrive of the spicer 6453 first at 55-60mph. At 60 that puts me at 2300rpm, 55 at 2100. Highway speeds here in Utah are a little bit slower than in Texas, only being passed at 70mph compared to being passed by 18 wheelers at 80-90mph.

DT466 engine, Spicer 6453 trans, 5 ton intake, and hydraulic assist power steering through an HF54 box coming up soon! After that it's brake upgrade time.

This sounds like a very good plan !

 

[Another Ahab]

Going to see how the DT466 likes the .78 overdrive of the spicer 6453 first at 55-60mph. At 60 that puts me at 2300rpm, 55 at 2100. Highway speeds here in Utah are a little bit slower than in Texas, only being passed at 70mph compared to being passed by 18 wheelers at 80-90mph.

I get 80 mph, but 90 mph is just plain a scary speed.

Things go bad real fast at 90, especially with something like an 18-wheeler hauling 30-40 tons.

 

[red]

Well, making progress now! Just paid for the engine, now to arrange shipping.







Transmission does not come with it but that's not a concern, wasn't a trans I wanted. 1982 International DT466, the 180hp model with about 150k miles on it. Power steering pump, air compressor, and 12 volt alt are all included. So I'll have to decide what to do about lights and the EGT gauge since they are 24 volt, or mount a second alternator.

 

[red]

Did some prep work to the engine bay today, mostly to the passenger side.



Removed both alternators, coolant filter, air filter mount, radiator.











Planning to pull the engine and transmission together. Air and fuel lines are loosely connected right now. Next trip out to the truck I'll pull the transmission shifter, stub shaft, steering column (going to power steering), and the wiring from the engine. Bumper and motor mounts will be pulled once we get a wrecker out there to swap the engine/transmission out.

Hopefully doing the swap in 4-6 weeks.

 

[Another Ahab]

Did some prep work to the engine bay today, mostly to the passenger side.

View attachment 571954

Getting some good work done there, red.

I've been looking for a pop-up tent/awning like you get there over the engine bay:

- As those things go, do you like the one you got?

- And if so, do you mind letting us know where you picked it up?

 

[red]

Thanks, about 1/3rd of the way done with the prep work before the engine comes out. Also sprayed/wiped down the passenger side of the engine bay, was coated in oil from the motor (rest of it is as well).

The tent belongs to a friend of mine, he bought it at walmart. Being a redhead the sun is not my friend, so I'll take what shade I can get haha. It works well and is quick/easy to setup with 2 people.

 

[red]

Might have found a trans for cheap as well. Eaton/Fuller RTLO-16918B. Overkill being that it's rated for over 1,600 ft/lbs of torque continuous 18 speed with a .73:1 final overdrive. 32" long, and a cheap price tag.

Also found a rtoof-9513 for the same price, but it needs new syncros. 13 speed rated for 950ft/lbs and .62:1 final overdrive.

The 18 speed will put me at 1900rpm at 55, and around 2100rpm at 60mph with the 395's. The 18 speed is 750 pounds according to the manufacturer. So the 300ish pounds I'm saving with the engine swap is basically being pushed back to the trans. I'll also have to figure out the air lines for the splitters. The DT466 has a SAE#2 adapter on it so that makes transmission mounting and clutches easy.

Been waiting on shipping to pick up the engine so I've been looking at transmissions now haha.

 

[red]

http://www.roadranger.com/rr/ProductsServices/ProductsbyCategory/Transmissions/PCT_486870

Link to the spreadsheet of Eaton/Fuller transmission gear ratios.

 

[rustystud]

Might have found a trans for cheap as well. Eaton/Fuller RTLO-16918B. Overkill being that it's rated for over 1,600 ft/lbs of torque continuous 18 speed with a .73:1 final overdrive. 32" long, and a cheap price tag.

Also found a rtoof-9513 for the same price, but it needs new syncros. 13 speed rated for 950ft/lbs and .62:1 final overdrive.

The 18 speed will put me at 1900rpm at 55, and around 2100rpm at 60mph with the 395's. The 18 speed is 750 pounds according to the manufacturer. So the 300ish pounds I'm saving with the engine swap is basically being pushed back to the trans. I'll also have to figure out the air lines for the splitters. The DT466 has a SAE#2 adapter on it so that makes transmission mounting and clutches easy.

Been waiting on shipping to pick up the engine so I've been looking at transmissions now haha.

That is a great transmission, especially for a "Semi-Truck" !! For our little Deuce, yes it is overkill ! but if it fits and works OK then go for it. The only problem is if you have to do any repairs on that transmission. It will cost you a small fortune to repair. I know as I used to repair those transmissions. On a normal 5 speed transmission I was expected to rebuild 2 a day. Complete teardown, cleaning and rebuild. On any "roadranger" 13 to 18 speed units it took 3 days !