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Replaced R6602 Manifold Assembly

m139h2otruck

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Ever since we got the truck, the exhaust manifold center outlet has been broken, and it was slowly getting worse. Finally, this spring I removed the unit from the spare parts truck and had it cleaned up at the local machine shop. We installed it yesterday in the misty rain.
 

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msgjd

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cracked or broken exhaust manifolds on the R6602's are common. The engines usually get shut down hot and the design of the casting isn't the strongest. I've replaced maybe a couple dozen of them in the mil.
 

msgjd

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Craig, the 6602's inherently run rich enough already,,, they don't need a 4-barrel to add more fuel to the mix....
We called them "brush burners" for a reason......

They not only had a habit of catching roadside brush on fire, but while I followed I watched an M127 semitrailer full of willy-pete 105mm arty rounds catch fire on the underside, because of the fire-laden exhaust. That was a hairy situation for several long minutes because I couldn't get the attention of the driver ahead of me while I watched his fire spread from below and up to the side. I backed way off and continued to signal. His rider finally looked in the mirror and saw the smoke and flame. I swear I saw his eyes pop out of his head when he jumped onto the running board with the extinguisher and realized how involved the fire was, knowing the nature of the load. By that time I had stopped way back and was running up with my extinguisher. It was an interesting day... We were on a steep winding muddy mountainside trail recently cut in by the engineers, it was very narrow and dangerous, two trucks couldn't pass each other on it, two jeeps barely. A dozer slid over the side and the operator killed during finish work. Was there guardrails or earth berms alongside? What? This is the army. Are you kidding? High rock walls up on one side, and a steep 500ft+ drop-off on the other that disappeared into the canopy and underbrush. It wasn't even as good as that treacherous famous deadly road in, I think, Bolivia. It was a controlled-direction trail with an OP w/Prick 77 at each end of the cut. There was no way I could go any faster to close the distance between us to bump his ass with my truck to get his attention without putting myself over the slippery edge. Flashing lights and laying on the horn and waves didn't work. Well at least we weren't getting shot at...
 

m139h2otruck

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If you have all the parts and pieces ready, and don't have to wait for the machine shop to surface the manifolds, it should take no more than 4-6 hours with two men or a real good hoist setup. The combined assembly is very heavy, so it takes two guys to lift and hold it in position both in and out. This truck has 1400x20 tires so it is extra high off the ground, & having been painted only about two years ago, we didn't want to wreck the paint.

The 6602 is not a high rev motor, topping out at 2,800-3,000 rpm. Based on the size and speed of the engine, the total cfm requirement at 100% VE is around 375-425 cfm. If anything, a staged two barrel carb would work better; high velocity at low rpm thru a single barrel and both open at wide-open throttle. Holley had a 350 and a 500 cfm staged 2v carb a few years ago that may have worked, but their catalog hasn't shown them for over 15 years. Throttle lever was also in the wrong location too.
 

JasonS

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Rich or lean depends on how a particular carb is tuned. A small 4bbl should be fine. The staged 2bbls have been reported to not have a goodl mid range on 200 to 300 cubic inch inlines; they were designed for high rev'ing small engines.
 

msgjd

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to jason 5... the holley found on 5T gassers is jetted heavy. There is no adjustment for lean/rich other than idle screw, which you can lean right down to a point it will not stay running, yet it will still be a rich mixture during working rpm's. I haven't seen a 5T gasser that didn't run rich, and I ran dozens of them 30 years ago, and have two of my own nowadays. One of these days I'm going to see if I can find smaller jets, or at least fill the existing ones in and rebore them slightly smaller.
 

OSO

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Good to see pics of your project .I now have an idea on how to hook up my heater on my M328 . Still have to change the head gaskets on mine . I put that pickup hoist over the winch to reach out and lift the heads off by myself , I hope . :idea:
 

JasonS

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msgjd said:
to jason 5... the holley found on 5T gassers is jetted heavy. There is no adjustment for lean/rich other than idle screw, which you can lean right down to a point it will not stay running, yet it will still be a rich mixture during working rpm's. I haven't seen a 5T gasser that didn't run rich, and I ran dozens of them 30 years ago, and have two of my own nowadays. One of these days I'm going to see if I can find smaller jets, or at least fill the existing ones in and rebore them slightly smaller.
I agree. My brother's 602 runs rich (at least at idle) and loads up after awhile. I have read that running rich is often used to cover up poor fuel delivery/ manifold/ ignition characteristics. Wonder if that is the case here?
 

msgjd

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Hi jason, yes, they are rich for a couple reasons, you sorta hit one on the head, which I'll get to last. First, the carbs are a very simple design to provide a generic and adequate fuel mix for full power at any rpm. Fuel consumption/economy wasn't an issue to the military in those days.

Second, you are right, the richness is to cover up a problem... it's with the fuel delivery system. The culprit is on these carbs (I think). They have a normally-open vacuum-actuated butterfly throttle, and they lack an accelerator pump (which injects an additional shot of fuel into the mix whenever you press on the pedal). The carb on a 6602 needs to run rich all the time, or the engine will hesitate and (more often) cough out everytime the engine vacuum drops, as when loads are applied. It's a snowball effect. The engine starts to bog down, the vacuum drops, the butterfly opens and lets in more air, and if the engine is cold or mixture not rich enough, you get the typical cough and backfire up through the carb. The 5T gassers are famous for it. That's why they are supposed to be warmed up before moving out or else you will be fighting with the engine and playing with the choke constantly until you finally get up to speed. Once they are warm they run great (although rich). Next time your brother has his carb off, look at it and you will see the throttle butterfly wide open. That's why they cough and backfire when you start them cold and have to choke the crap out of them. They are trying to start wide open. It's a bad design because the last thing a cold engine wants if it hesitates or starts to die is to have the butterfly open up wide. But that's exactly what happens with this type of vacuum throttle. The only reason it's on there is to prevent overspeed, and it was also supposed to provide automatic throttle adjustment in direct response to loads on the engine.

If you ask me, I've never liked the design. Vacuum throttles were on some civvie trucks as well. One of these days I'm going to jet mine down and see what happens. It probably will help the fuel economy, but I'm sure I won't be able to even move the truck until the engine comes up to temp. But before I do that I should try to modify the throttle so that it's 100% foot pedal actuated, which means the butterfly will be closed at all times unless you push on the pedal, just like 95% of carburators. To heck with the vacuum governor, I have a tach on the dash and ears! Worse comes to worse, I'll put a "normal" carb on it, one that will respond to what my foot tells it to do. My 6602's work almost every day, off road and on road. They will do 60 on the flat if I let them. Economy and performance is something I need to address, and the stock carb is too basic and "idiot proof" to provide both.
 

m139h2otruck

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Our truck has the 1980's updated Zenith carb on it (see photos), and it still runs somewhat rich, especially at idle or low rpm. Even so, both a friend and my son have followed the truck at speed and it still stinks and makes a huge heat cloud under and around the bottom of the truck, like a jet engine exhaust. It is nowhere as bad as the original equipment Holley.

Both carbs have the governor chamber that uses vacuum from below the throttle plates to pull the plates shut when the valve in the unit below the distributor shuts off the air flow to the vacuum chamber under the high limit for rpm. In effect, there is a full time air leak through the governor until the valve shuts, causing the diaphram to pull the plates towards the closed position. Both carbs have a split throttle plate shaft that is spring loaded, so during normal operation, the foot throttle both opens and closes the plates, but the governor can override the foot throttle position and close the plates when top rpm is reached. Our Zenith carb had a split diaphram so the limiter did not work, but we used a new Holley unit on the original Zenith rod to fix it and now it works OK, cutting out at about 3,000 rpm.

Not sure about others, but the original equipment Holley on our engine had an accelerator pump linked to the throttle that gave a real big shot when moved. The newer Zenith has what appears to be a vacuum operated pump that seems to cause a little more hesitation mostly when cold. Ford used the same system on some single barrel carbs in the 1960s on small 6 cylinders.
 

msgjd

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Hey M139, thanks for the info on the zenith... I'll look into that as an option as well. I have also heard ofa "fuel miser" update kit on the original Holley's. What I'd really like to find is a carb with a mechanical accel pump and no vacuum crap on it.
 
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