Replacement two-piece rim nuts?

HDN

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I wrecked the original two-piece rim lock nuts off my M35A3 rim (tip - don't run a tap all the way through the lock nuts :mad: Yeah not happy with myself!). I know they're the same lock nuts that came on the M939A2 rims, so I was wondering where the 5-ton folks are getting their replacements. These rim nuts are 3/4-16 NF thread with 1-1/8" between the flats.

I found one type of top lock flange nut on McMaster-Carr which is done in grade 8 black steel. That's nice and all except it's made from grade 8 steel, which I fear may wreck the grade 5 rim studs if I try to use those. And I don't want to make this into a stud replacement project either 🤮

Fastenal has a top lock flange nut made of grade 5 steel, except the nuts are 1-1/16" between the flats (as opposed to the stock 1-1/8" size). Is the smaller nut with the same thread size a problem? Otherwise I'd get these and another deep socket to mount them.

Would regular nuts with lock washers be acceptable for this use instead of locking nuts? Also, does anyone have any experience with civilian two-piece rims like those mounted on Jeeps? They don't seem to have much of an anti-vibration mechanism at all but they seem to be just fine.
 

charlesmann

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Have you tried the advertised vendor on here and other military parts websites?

Im running in to this issue with my L/FMTV beadlock studs. Erik’s military had the short stud and 1 nut. Luckily, i only need 1 stud and 1 nut, so at least i was able to procure something.
 
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HDN

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Erik doesn't have the nuts in right now. Oshkosh and Big Mike's has them, though shipping is expensive - maybe I can ask them to use a USPS flat rate box instead. Memphis Equipment has rim nuts that will fit 5/8" studs for the M939A2, which confuses me because I thought that was exclusively an FMTV size :unsure:

I'm a little concerned about the NOS running out at some point too, so I'd like to have an alternative lined up that I can get through other civilian channels. I'm going to give Fastenal a call this morning and ask them about those lock nuts I found.

I'm still curious about using a regular nut and lock washer, maybe adding Loctite to the mix. I know that combination has been useful for engine components for a long time, but I'm not automotive engineer enough to know if using those to hold rims together would provide the same fastening strength as the lock nuts originally specified for the rims.

EDIT: According to the Fastenal guy the distance between the flats won't make a difference in the application of the nut, with the thread size being most important. By that logic, the 1-1/16" nut should be able to replace the stock 1-1/8" rim nut without a problem. I guess it's either efficient manufacturing or AM General taking advantage of the DoD with non-standard parts?
 
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charlesmann

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I second Fastenal being useless as teats on a boar hog.

How many nuts do you need? Iv got 13rims worth of bead lock nuts, i can mail you some in a flat rate rate box.
Ill just restock those on my next order for stuff for my truck.
Pm me your address and ill have my wife drop them in the mail this week.

@simp5782 did you get my pm with my address regarding the studs and nuts for the lmtv wheel bead lock?
 
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Floridianson

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Yea maybe venders or Google self locking / distorted nuts military trucks. If I remember I paid about 3 bucks a piece from vendor.
 
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HDN

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I'm ready to screw on my new rim nuts. What I'm about to ask is probably as bad as religion or politics: Is never seize recommended for the rim nut installation? TM doesn't mention otherwise. I'd think it wouldn't be as big an issue with these distorted thread nuts, but I'm an amateur when it comes to combat rims :p
 

charlesmann

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I'm ready to screw on my new rim nuts. What I'm about to ask is probably as bad as religion or politics: Is never seize recommended for the rim nut installation? TM doesn't mention otherwise. I'd think it wouldn't be as big an issue with these distorted thread nuts, but I'm an amateur when it comes to combat rims :p
TM doesnt say and to each their own, but with them being locking nuts, and knowing how much of a pain mine were to get off with the amount corrosion in the threads. I sleazed mine with a nickel base anti-sleaze.
 
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HDN

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TM doesnt say and to each their own, but with them being locking nuts, and knowing how much of a pain mine were to get off with the amount corrosion in the threads. I sleazed mine with a nickel base anti-sleaze.
I ended up doing this with my first wheel and torquing it to spec (between 425 and 475 ft-lbs for the M35A3 rims). The wheel is holding air fine. Hopefully I won't have to pull these rims apart for awhile! But when I have to, it won't be as terrible as this time.

Another thing I realized is that I'm also compressing the bead lock insert when tightening the clamp ring, which should also act as a locking force against the lock nut threads in addition to the distorted threads in the lock nuts.
 

simp5782

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Spray the threads with dry spray lube with Teflon it works well in salty environments

I pop the can and pour it in a Tupperware and use a pain brush to put it on
 
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G744

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They aren't "combat" wheels, meant to be changed in the field with just wrenches. (Which is BS, as they are harder to work with than regular lockring wheels).

They are tubeless wheels, necessary as using rubber beadlock cylinders on a central inflation system. Meant to be repaired at unit shops.

I do all mine at home with just Gr. 5 nuts and hardened flat washers. They have never come loose in 30,000 miles of use.

Conelrad
 

Floridianson

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Believe you are correct about the TM Frank plus no wheel manufacture ever said to use anti-seize only light oil. To each his own but I looked on my can of anti-seize and it no longer says for wheel studs. Just my .02 but light oil and the threads under the nuts seem better shape than the ones that are exposed to the weather and not cleaned and painted. Seems like so many of the trucks came out of service and the studs were never painted and if they were they would be in much better shape. Yes if rusted clean the best way you can to remove rust and oil / lube them before trying to remove the nuts.
 

HDN

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Most of the studs I've encountered so far on my truck's rims have a thick layer of CARC on them, with the coating thinner on some studs than others, allowing rust to form. I learned the hard way that it's best to chase these threads with a die first so that the clamp ring nuts back off easier. After I back the nuts off, I chased the threads again in case the distorted threads on the nuts damaged the threads while backing them off, as well as clean the threads that were covered by the lock nuts.

I'm curious about the oil thing since I've always been an anti-seize guy. I didn't see anything specifically called out in the truck or wheel TM about thread and fastener oil. Maybe it's in the basic automotive mechanics book? I forget what TM that is. Maybe I'm just too new school, or dumb :p
 

Floridianson

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Most of the studs I've encountered so far on my truck's rims have a thick layer of CARC on them, with the coating thinner on some studs than others, allowing rust to form. I learned the hard way that it's best to chase these threads with a die first so that the clamp ring nuts back off easier. After I back the nuts off, I chased the threads again in case the distorted threads on the nuts damaged the threads while backing them off, as well as clean the threads that were covered by the lock nuts.

I'm curious about the oil thing since I've always been an anti-seize guy. I didn't see anything specifically called out in the truck or wheel TM about thread and fastener oil. Maybe it's in the basic automotive mechanics book? I forget what TM that is. Maybe I'm just too new school, or dumb :p
Not dumb what ever you think is best. Yep cleaning them up is a good thing before install. Here is the response from Meritor to me post #79 Wheel Lug Nuts & Studs and Anti-Seize | Page 4 | SteelSoldiers
 

charlesmann

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Your nuts are the 2B class threads.

2B

Also there is great difference in Nickle based to copper based never seize goop
Does not the TM say to use light coat of motor oil?
We use copper in high heat areas, like spark plugs cyl jug studs and nuts, cyl head temp probes and other high heat areas. Nickel base is used in non high heat areas such rotor head/blade hardware, xmsn hardware that doesnt require oil.
If we run out of nickel, we sub with copper, but not the other way around.
 
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