Thanks Red...Wes added pictures of the dual to another thread. He also provided the name Max-Pro and I think they are on the International, not the Caimen. If you know of a large surplus of the Max-Pro that could be bought on a homeless man's budget (if the wife finds me speculating)...let me know.
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"Rescued" M816 Wrecker
- Thread starter Valence
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red
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Will do.
And just ran into a unexpected hurdle, bent one of the stock manual outriggers (rear passenger). Not at the welded up pivots, down at the pin that attaches the manual screw mechanism. Was backing the truck up into it's spot and the outrigger foot caught a rock (head sized) and bent the outrigger. There goes the plan to use the manual outriggers to hold the bed up for now, back to the tail roller/winch plan then.
And just ran into a unexpected hurdle, bent one of the stock manual outriggers (rear passenger). Not at the welded up pivots, down at the pin that attaches the manual screw mechanism. Was backing the truck up into it's spot and the outrigger foot caught a rock (head sized) and bent the outrigger. There goes the plan to use the manual outriggers to hold the bed up for now, back to the tail roller/winch plan then.
big block 88
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We never ran caman or cougars in dually configuration. Maxpro internationals ran dual rears to help with rollovers that were happening when they first came into theater, and the MASSIVE RPG protection that hanged off the sides were either caged flat bar or the foam filled boxes (some of ours had sand filled boxes) made the trucks very tippy.
If I hadn't went from the 817 with duals to the M929 with GY 14.00, I probably never would have thought duals were so much more stable with a load. They are. The 395 Mich XLZ made a huge difference, but I still have a desire to go duals. Without selling my 931...I'm at a standstill however, even if I do locate some.
big block 88
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Dualed 395 would be insane wide (and cool). May have to fab some skirts or extensions for the bed sides. The maxpro trucks didnt even try and cover the duals in the begining they just stuck out the side of the truck about 8-12". Later trucks had fender extensions welded on similar to steel flat bar fender flares.
wcuhillbilly
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Red, as far as the chassis mounted hydro tank.. a thought just occurred to me.. Our Wreckers have the spare tire and torch bottle area just behind the cab.... If that area was gutted and cut out- reinforced for the structure that runs through there-- couldn't a huge skinny upright tank be mounted directly behind the cab straddling the frame rail????? Like the wet kits on OTR trucks,, or a custom made headache rack/ chain rack..... This would require mods to the new bed system but a 100 gal hydro tank could essentially be made to fit in 8-12" of space. Even if you used one of the redi made fuel tanks from Tractor Supply or such that is maybe 8-12" wide, 5' long and 3' tall. This would also keep the tank up above the bed where heat transfer would not be inhibited by the underside of the bed...
red
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That would work fine, I just don't want to spend the money for another tank when I have 2 options here already (stock hydraulic tank or the extra fuel tank).
For size reference here's a couple pics. The first pic of the bed is from it's front edge to the storage boxes at a little over 16 1/2". The second pic at just over 20" is from the back of the cab to the boxes. Third pic is the width.
The width/depth of the stock hydraulic tank
So the stock tank is just a hair too big to fit without cutting into the storage boxes, or could move it up to just over the boxes and make them side opening which would work well. For both of our plans this would work.
For my plans of multiple beds the wrecker bed is the most challenging one to figure out right with the least amount of mods due to it's weight and the location of the crane compared to the rear axles. All of the plumbing and PTO's are factors as well. I have 2 different winches available for this. The rear 45k moved, or a smaller 18k that's running 1/2" cable and both have their benefits. The 18k can easily/cheaply be setup for hydraulics and is small enough that only the spare tire section of the wrecker bed would have to be cut out for winch clearance. Problem there is the weight of the wrecker bed at 17k plus tools/equipment. By getting rid of the manual outriggers and moving the hydraulic tank it will reduce the weight, maybe enough to counteract the other equipment and keep it below 18k pounds.
Option 2 with the 45k winch moved behind the cab. Zero concerns about the weight of the wrecker bed then, but the winch size is a problem. Even without the level wind equipment it would necessitate cutting out the spare tire area, tubing from the front outriggers, and basically remove the storage boxes center section. Also requires removing the front step sections from the bed so it can be pulled up/over the tail roller.
Option 1 with the smaller winch is my plan. Maybe mount the hydraulic tank behind the cab as you mentioned.
Couple pics of the damaged outrigger from yesterday. Managed to bend it back pretty easily using a come along.
Once that was taken care of removed the PTO shaft, linkages, and lowered the power divider. Then raised the bed off of the chassis.
wcuhillbilly
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dang, the stiff leg situation really sucks. I have had those kind of DOH!!
moments.
as for the hydro tank... if the wrecker bed is the main use of the hydro system or the only hydro attachement that is going to use that much fluid,,, you could mount the tank up be hind the rear window, and above the relocated winch. Mounted to the bed instead of the truck and equip it with lines and disconnects- kinda like a remote reservoir for that bed, a smaller tank could be mounted to the chassis for some of the smaller winches etc that stay on the truck... My JD 450 crawler is set up this way,, the backhoe has a 20-30 gal reservoir of its own and the crawler has a 25 gal res of its own, the two are coupled via 1" couplers when the backhoe is attached. note,,, if running the 1" disconnects Im sure your aware of what a PITA they are to get connected. I have thought of using ball valves at the disconnects to keep residual fluid pressure from making the discons such a pain to get lined up and coupled..... IE: shut down pump, close ball valves, disconnect couplers(this will spill the residual that is in the coupler and make the center pins easer to push) Connect couplers to themselves for storage- anti mud dabber home. Recouple when bed goes back on and then turn ball valves to allow fluid,,, and its a double back up if a coupler ever gets torn off, or a line ruptures.
moments. as for the hydro tank... if the wrecker bed is the main use of the hydro system or the only hydro attachement that is going to use that much fluid,,, you could mount the tank up be hind the rear window, and above the relocated winch. Mounted to the bed instead of the truck and equip it with lines and disconnects- kinda like a remote reservoir for that bed, a smaller tank could be mounted to the chassis for some of the smaller winches etc that stay on the truck... My JD 450 crawler is set up this way,, the backhoe has a 20-30 gal reservoir of its own and the crawler has a 25 gal res of its own, the two are coupled via 1" couplers when the backhoe is attached. note,,, if running the 1" disconnects Im sure your aware of what a PITA they are to get connected. I have thought of using ball valves at the disconnects to keep residual fluid pressure from making the discons such a pain to get lined up and coupled..... IE: shut down pump, close ball valves, disconnect couplers(this will spill the residual that is in the coupler and make the center pins easer to push) Connect couplers to themselves for storage- anti mud dabber home. Recouple when bed goes back on and then turn ball valves to allow fluid,,, and its a double back up if a coupler ever gets torn off, or a line ruptures.
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red
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Yea the wrecker bed is so far the only planned one that requires a large amount of hydraulic oil. Most of the other planned systems will work with the lower volume dump truck pump so could get away with a smaller tank there. Setting up 2 tanks at different heights to be plumbed together and not overflow the lower tank, never looked into that before. (If I go 2 tanks the small one would be by the passenger fuel tank). That would require buying another tank though.dang, the stiff leg situation really sucks. I have had those kind of DOH!!
as for the hydro tank... if the wrecker bed is the main use of the hydro system or the only hydro attachement that is going to use that much fluid,,, you could mount the tank up be hind the rear window, and above the relocated winch. Mounted to the bed instead of the truck and equip it with lines and disconnects- kinda like a remote reservoir for that bed, a smaller tank could be mounted to the chassis for some of the smaller winches etc that stay on the truck... My JD 450 crawler is set up this way,, the backhoe has a 20-30 gal reservoir of its own and the crawler has a 25 gal res of its own, the two are coupled via 1" couplers when the backhoe is attached. note,,, if running the 1" disconnects Im sure your aware of what a PITA they are to get connected. I have thought of using ball valves at the disconnects to keep residual fluid pressure from making the discons such a pain to get lined up and coupled..... IE: shut down pump, close ball valves, disconnect couplers(this will spill the residual that is in the coupler and make the center pins easer to push) Connect couplers to themselves for storage- anti mud dabber home. Recouple when bed goes back on and then turn ball valves to allow fluid,,, and its a double back up if a coupler ever gets torn off, or a line ruptures.
Placing the stock tank over the chassis mounted winch would probably be the least amount of mods since that would only mean adding 2 fittings to the tank for the smaller pump. Could offset the tank towards the driver side and place the spare tire offset towards the passenger side, or just find a different spot for the spare tire.
red
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Manual outriggers were used for the last time today. Stuffed a piece of wood between the chassis/wrecker bed sub frame along each rail to lift the bed high enough to clear the rivets. Then raised up the outriggers and used the bed winch on the pickup to drag each outrigger out of it's tube. That little bed winch is proving itself quite useful for it's small size (4500 lb). Outriggers are headed to scrap on friday.
With that taken care of the next step was to start cutting into the bed to make room for the winch. Might have to cut further into the former spare tire area.
With that taken care of the next step was to start cutting into the bed to make room for the winch. Might have to cut further into the former spare tire area.
wcuhillbilly
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ahh,,, the tell tale sign of frustration,,,,,, broken sawzall blades, and torch spatter....
red
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Hahaha yea. At least a grinder cutoff wheel didn't explode into my leg again.ahh,,, the tell tale sign of frustration,,,,,, broken sawzall blades, and torch spatter....
Chopped the last few useful items off of the m51a2 frame remains today. Going to use the 2 pieces of frame rail as the mount for the tail roller. The mount will stick out just a little past the roller to help serve as a guide for the bed as is goes up/down. The rear crossmember/hitch supports will be attached to the bed subframe and will serve as the attachment point/crossmember for the bed that the winch will hook to.
The mount will have the C's point outwards and will be bolted to the outsides of the truck chassis.
red
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Haven't touched the project much lately but spent a little time on it today. Cut the frame extensions (last of the m51a2 frame) to 24" long. Will trim them down if necessary as the roller gets built. Also did a bit more trimming at the front of the bed to make room for the winch.
red
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Looks like might have a deal lined up for the tail roller with mounts from a m916/m920 so that should save alot of labor. While waiting for that to arrive I spent some time removing most of the crane PTO components that won't be used anymore (ad posted in the parts available section). Still keeping the power divider and the short housing.
With that taken care of and the bed kinda stuck where it is until the roller is here, did some work on the pickup and its skid. Seems to be a trend of bed winch/tail rollers and my vehicles.....
Skid is built with the dump truck frame and 2 metal pallets that I got from 98G. Secure cargo to the skid then pull it up. It's a smaller scale version of how the bed swap setup will work on the m816.
With that taken care of and the bed kinda stuck where it is until the roller is here, did some work on the pickup and its skid. Seems to be a trend of bed winch/tail rollers and my vehicles.....
Skid is built with the dump truck frame and 2 metal pallets that I got from 98G. Secure cargo to the skid then pull it up. It's a smaller scale version of how the bed swap setup will work on the m816.
wcuhillbilly
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That POS PTO shaft, boxes, and such looks strangly familiar,, except mine had Ice sickles and frost all over it last time I got intimate with that cursed contraption--- Jan 2017 at around 0*F..... Guess your going to pioneer your way into the exploration of the Samsung 350 Excavator manifold before I... Let me know how it goes as I have a shop building skeleton to erect before I get too froggy with my mods,,,, at least while mine is still running... classic scenario of cross your fingers and hope everything works until this project is done....
As for the classified ad,,, go ahead and part out the long shaft and grease box, or even the short tube too,,, build up a flange style U Joint output like I did..
Shortens up the reach of that shaft and really helps when trying to stuff a hydro pump or some other means of debauchery in that small place...
problem I always had with tail rollers was keeping my feet off of the roller while exiting or climbing up onto the bed... course you only catch your fingers in them once....
As for the classified ad,,, go ahead and part out the long shaft and grease box, or even the short tube too,,, build up a flange style U Joint output like I did..
Shortens up the reach of that shaft and really helps when trying to stuff a hydro pump or some other means of debauchery in that small place...
problem I always had with tail rollers was keeping my feet off of the roller while exiting or climbing up onto the bed... course you only catch your fingers in them once....
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red
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Hahaha yea I remember your experience with frosty poop all over the place. Been a mild winter here so taking advantage of it when possible. The short PTO housing might just get completely replaced by a seal retainer and a yoke for a tractor PTO shaft since they are cheap/readily available. Planning to mount the pump to the bottom of that rear crossmember.
Going to be summer most likely before I get to the rotary manifold. Once the bed is off then will take care of the truck work such as the lower dog bones, better securing of the plumbing, moving the hydraulic pump/tank to the chassis, all that good stuff.
The pickup's tail roller isn't actually a roller, it's fixed solid. Figured since the flatbed that's on it is only temporary might as well make it cheaper. Can picture the pinched fingers and slipping happening though if not paying attention when getting in/out of a truckbed with one haha. When it comes time to rebuild that bed then it will get a good roller. Having even just the fixed one has re solidified the value of that setup to me this weekend.
Oh the manual outriggers, they are gone for good. Took them out a few weeks ago and scrapped them. Shaved 960 pounds off of the bed weight which brings it down to about 16k pounds empty. A bit more safety wiggle room for the small 18k winch (rated for 22k rolling weight up a 45 degree slope).