rusted surface prep.

[whyme]

well its getting warm so its about time to paint up the deuce, thanks to my dad for purchasing a case of rapco for a jeep project of ours, i should have enough 383 green and black to do the job and ill order brown once i get some cash.

anyway my dilemma is that some areas of my truck have moderate to heavy rust. small spots can easily be taken to bare clean metal or replaced as needed but the inside of the bed and inside of the wheel wells have widespread surface rust. im not really keen on having to wire wheel it all down and i don't have feasible access to sandblasting.

what is my best option? i might bed line the bed but i still need to prep and i dont want rust bubbles under the paint. ive considered those products that paint right over rust but would like to hear first hand experience and the only one ive seen so far was very pricey

dan

 

[Westech]

You can NOT paint over rust and expect it to last. The "converting" sprays do NOT work there 100% bull. You will need to remove the rust and use a self etching primer. There is a coating called POR 15 that works well but you still can not just paint over rust and think that it will be ok. I just spent all winter cutting out and prepping my M151 for paint. For the Members who have seen my Jeep it was nice before but I wanted to take it to the next level.
Sorry to say but you get some work to do.

 

[Tinwoodsman]

I tired the easy route and can also attest that there is no easy route. Get-Er-Done!

 

[zout]

^^^^^^^^^Westech^^^^^^^^ DITTO
absolutely correct.

If you do not have the time to do it correctly the first time - wait till you do and do not concern yourself with the budget at this stage - like building a foundation to a skyscraper - if the foundations is not perfect - it does not mattter how prettty of crap you stick on top of it - it will eventually all fall apart.

 

[Flyingvan911]

Heavy rust on the surface means the chemistry has "soaked" into the metal. It will almost always come back. The real long term solution is either cut the rusted metal out and patch or replace the whole piece.

I have some light surface rust on my deuce and I'm going to sand it down and use POR 15 or equivilant. The auto primer and Rapco top coat.

 

[drgreg]

As Neil Young said "Rust Never Sleeps", oh , that was the title to his best album.
Here is some good music to sand by: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs2-BH9_DMA[/media]

 

[82ABNMP]

Rust

If it's surface rust just knock off the loose stuff with a wire brush then use POR 15 and paint over the rusted parts. I have used this for years and unless you are doing a show paint job the POR 15 works great and you can top coat it after it dries.

David

 

[BobMassive]

I just did the floor of my m1009. I used naval jelly first which removes a lot of surface rust. Seems like it works fairly well. Then I hit it with the grinder. You still have to get everything off. Took me four days.

 

[82ABNMP]

Surface rust...

Let me clarify surface rust...that's just light rust stains to minor "light" pitting. If it's more than that you will need to follow a different method of repair. Like the guys said above, it will come back if you don't cut it out.

David

 

[Dave Kay]

Let me first say that I know VERY little to NONE regarding paint & body work but have great desire to learn.

I too have this same problem w/surface rust on my M1008. Mostly the hood and surrounding area. In some spots it's deeper than others and so far as I've read, it looks to be a fair amount of work to remedy--- IF--- you don't want to revisit the same problems again later on.

Since I haven't done any of this yet, feel free to shoot holes in my strategy:

1. Remove hood. Sand, sand, sand, sand, sand. First w/200 then 400. Fill deep spots as needed, block-sand some more.

2. Wire brush the underside as needed. Liquid rust remover/etch, rinse, let dry 24hrs.

3. Heavy brush application of Eastwood or some rust encapsulator paint, sand, sand, sand some more.

4. If it looks fairly decent after that treatment, then some fine sanding and primer, then final paint. Only need it to look decent and stop the rust, we're not going Barret-Jackson here. (also plan to shoot the underside and insulate)

Another option which looks like a real work-saver (if you've got the extra buck$ to $pend) is a soda blaster. Saw one at Harbor Frieght for around $150 but then you have to also buy the media which is about $30 per bag. Be curious to hear about this option. Has anyone used this tool?

Good luck

 

[zout]

I only bring this up for those not into painting. but after you have made the surface repairs as mentioned above properly & if you still have imperfections (like surface has looks of being sand blasted) there are basic primers out there that are called Filler Primer that are thick primers. These are put on in lite coats and scratch padded off and use the product again - till filled. There are many other new products out there that do the same very light filling work to bring the surface back to "smooth".

I dislike bondo and use it only when necessary and only in the thinist thickness only.

One of the jeeps now that I am working on must have had a half gallon of bondo on the tailgate to fill very small dents. But what did not get repaired properly the first time at surface level reared its ugly head and came back popping all that bondo.

Etching primer as mentioned
PORS - great product and only a couple like it out there simular

 

[Recovry4x4]

Thats funny. POR15! Paint Over Rust 15. What about sand blasting?

 

[Dave Kay]

Thanks for that info Zout... and that's a mighty juicy looking lil' pig you got on-the-grill there... bet it was tasty!

 

[drgreg]

I have read that Soda Blasting leaves a residue that can cause problems with paint. It should only be used in sensitive areas, then the areas need to be mechanically prepped prior to paint.

 

[82ABNMP]

prep

Yep, soda blasting leaves a film that you will need to treat with a metal prep.( plus it goes EVERYWHERE) These trucks are not 57 vetts, so for the above pictures of surface rust all that is needed is to sand with 80-100 grit the use a rust treatment then filler primer then paint. They also make an etching primer that you can use before the filler primer. But again these are Army trucks.
Sand/rust treatment/prime/paint.

David

 

[Nonotagain]

Yep, soda blasting leaves a film that you will need to treat with a metal prep.( plus it goes EVERYWHERE) These trucks are not 57 vetts, so for the above pictures of surface rust all that is needed is to sand with 80-100 grit the use a rust treatment then filler primer then paint. They also make an etching primer that you can use before the filler primer. But again these are Army trucks.
Sand/rust treatment/prime/paint.

David

You got that correct. No reason to go any finer than 120 grit sand paper.

Soda blasting doesn't deform metal as much as sandblasting does due to lower pressures used.

A friend is in the process of doing a full restoration on a 1969 Chevelle. All of the sheet metal from the floor pan to the roof have been blasted with soda. The advantage of soda is that parts don't have to be primed right after surface prep unlike sand blasting.

POR makes a metal cleaner/conditioner and a phosphate treatment which improves paint adhesion.

The car is going to receive wash primer, a zinc rich primer and finally a single stage non-metallic metallic topcoat.

For vehicles being painted with low gloss paints there is no need to do elaborate surface sanding as it won't be seen.

 

[tatra813]

After restoring dozens of trucks. Here is my advice.

POR 15 peels off over time, even with good prep. I prefer a good primer and a epoxy paint.

Sandblasting is the best way to remove and have paint last!!!

Second to that is completely wire wheel rust off, then I use OSPHO rust converter. (This is done after wire wheeling the rust off. It will convert the last bit of rust in the pores you cant see and make a excellent prep for paint. Rust converter does not work on any type of buildup of rust, even surface rust because it cant penetrate into the rust and only gets a thin top layer, but it does work if you do it as I described.

Absolute best way is sandblast and have pieces powdercoated. It is far far far better than paint,. catch is the piece has to fit into the powder coating oven.

 

[AMX]

Nothing beats having your panels dipped in an alkaline immersion bath (such as Redistrip). After dipping you can remove the white coating left and have the part phosphated before priming with a good quality catalyzed primer.

 

[tatra813]

Nothing beats having your panels dipped in an alkaline immersion bath (such as Redistrip). After dipping you can remove the white coating left and have the part phosphated before priming with a good quality catalyzed primer.

Never done this method. Ive seen places that dip cars etc for restoration. What does it take to remove the white coating? What exactly is phosphating?

Just wandering what it takes from the time you pick up your metal from dipping to painting?

 

[AMX]

Never done this method. Ive seen places that dip cars etc for restoration. What does it take to remove the white coating? What exactly is phosphating?

Just wandering what it takes from the time you pick up your metal from dipping to painting?

In plain speak, phosphating is rust resistant coating. Google it for a more technical response. Anything can be painted as soon as you like after dipping, or longer if kept dry. Phosphating increases the amount of time before you see surface rust start. Some places offer a lanolin based coating that will keep things rust free for years, but it must be power washed off with a caustic degreaser before paint work begins. Redi-strip is just one company, other companies use similiar proprietory solvents to accomplish the same result. It removes rust, even where you cannot see it ( such as in boxed rails etc.), butnot good metal.