Saladin, NEW VEHICLE---CHECK THIS OUT!

[hot rod deuce]

HAHA depends what you compare it to.....

 

[Toploader]

Very Cool! Congrates. I also like the way you off loaded it. Know how much it weighs by any chance?
X2 on more pics when you can.

 

[jimk]

Nice,Surely the most handsome of the Alvis siblings.

Is the drivetrain selectable in any way(i.e.4x6)?.

What was required for the demilling(gun)??

Is the excavating equipment yours too?

'Maintenance intensive' is a relative term...Easier than,say, a Cheiftain...Harder than, say, for the kid flipping burgers down at Micky D's (no disrespect intended to the food service specalists reading, indeed, you wouldn't want any burger I flipped).

I'm trying to have Sammy prep my stuff. I was planning on using my local carrier (that handles international freight). Any recommendation another LTL carrier(s)?

 

[rmgill]

Pay particular attention to the nitrogen charged system.

You've seen the accounts and stories on Dougs Heavy Metal Gallery right?
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/lsm/dhmg/andjef2.html

 

[hot rod deuce]

The drive train is the same parts as your stolly, the breach block was removed and a plug welded in the barrel. That was the old spec when it was imported, our Abbot has a hole cut in the high presure chamber and the breach is cut in half.

yup all the stuff is ours, thats just the left over stuff laying around the yard.

as for the LTL if it will fit in the back of a stolly or 432 and you can get it to RR service in Kent you can through it on with my stuff provided I dont use the room. We plan to bring a stolly across too instead of a container for th spare power packs.

I have an Abbot and FV-432 diesel shipping out at the end of the month pending the 28th or 1st. If you can make that dead line go for it. You may have to pay RR to mess around loading it.

 

[jimk]

HRD,
No experience with either Saladin or Saracen but I once read (Stolly) the Saracen (or some of them?) uses a different size bevel box gear than the stolly. That would change shaft speed, but not vehicle speed as the system is 1:1 overall. In other words the shaft speed would be increased/decreased at center box then decreased/increased a like amount at the corner box.

Swapping stolly and Saracen bevel boxes would thus impart an overall gear ratio change --IF-- this is true, and if such interchange was indeed possible.

Also,the Saracen transfer case has a slightly higher ratio. Perhaps that's to give the same maximum road speed as the stalwart,which uses larger 1400x20's(Saracens are 1200x20). I may have data on the various t-box gear tooth counts(aka ratio).Using Saracen gears will raise the top speed of the Stalwart 5-10MPH. These are the gears at the side(2 for F and 2 for R), not the pinion/bevel gears where the shifting takes place.The diff is small,maybe a one tooth.

I'm fairly certain of the latter.

I have always assumed that the Saladin's driveline is the same as the Saracen's, but as I said I am no expert.

Sammy sent me a note yesterday.He has a container going to Ohio. I may be taking a drive.Thanks for the offer.

JimK

 

[hot rod deuce]

Wow, guess i never got into th stuff that deep, will be good to know when we start the Tank Limo.....1400's on a saracen with a stolly motor would be a nice rig if the tires didnt rub, Good highway speed. That or repower with a 5.9 cummins and an allison auto

 

[jimk]

I wrote:
Swapping stolly and Saracen bevel boxes would thus impart an overall gear ratio change --IF-- this is true, and if such interchange was indeed possible.

I should add.
And that is a problem since the center bevel box can only drive the center wheel station at 1:1(straight thru).The center hub's sun wheels could be removed .The results of all this might be to get a net overall gain(or loss?) in road speed, but the off road performace would suffer badly.Might be an option for the highway cruiser that needs to keep up with traffic.

I have been planning to replace the center shock with a ram.Power it with the winch pump from a cab control with a pressure gauge. The center station could thus be unloaded, at will, to reduce wind-up. It would still look the part on the street and be fully off road capable.A Poor-mans selectable driveline? might make tyre changes easier.LOL
JimK

 

[hot rod deuce]

Hey good idea with the ram, perhaps it would be good to get it where the torsion bar pushes on the frame. That way you wouldnt have to over come the spring all the time.

 

[hot rod deuce]

Interesting pic's....That salamander thingy sure is kick A$$!!

i have designed a hydro suspension for the crew cab, and all you will need is two rams and a "motor valve" to do it like you are talking. A motor valve vents both "A" and "B" back to tank when in "neutral" i have a D03 24V motor valve if you get to that. I would think about using the ram to cary ALL of the weight then plumb in an acumulator to cary the weight of that wheel. This way you could select "no weight" "wheel lifted" or "weight bearing"

 

[rmgill]

Be careful about unloading all the drive line and just using the rear wheels to drive the whole thing. You're placing all the weight and force on the two rear bevels and prop shafts and they could fail badly. Ferret folk thought of doing this by removing the front drive axles to get just a 4x2 and several had bevel boxes fail. Which means you have to pull the engine to get to them.

 

[hot rod deuce]

You have a point, but the stolly was made to cary 10,000 pounds plus pull a trailer as long as he dosent do this it has not added any more stress that it would see loaded. A ferret on the other hand is built right to its max GVW

Another thing on the front drive shaft removal. Has any one every tried it for themself? I have heard it over and over. The diff's run front to rear in a ferret not side to side like the Stolly family. that means taking off the front drive shafts is the same as removing an axle from you M35...you go no where. I have my ferret trany out on the ground right now and have played with around with that part of it.

 

[rmgill]

actually that H and modified H pattern drive setup has the differential side to side on all vehicles from the Daimler Dingo, The Daimler Armored Car, the Ferret, Saladin, Saracen, Stalwart, Salamander, Fox and Vixen. the Diff is in the transfer case between sides of the the output. So right side is locked together, and left side is locked together. All have issues with windup but all have better off-road characteristics that belie their weight because of the setup of the drive-line. As I may have mentioned before, I've taken the Dingo off road through some goopy mud and pretty boggy terrain. If you keep your inertia up you can power through it and I've even done it at speed, backwards so I was power sliding backwards in 3rd gear no less.

You can take the front driveshafts off on the ferret but then you're putting all the force on two driving members rather than four. Richard Farrant in the UK I believe said he'd seen several ferret's drive lines fail with this configuration. If the drive shaft universal fails then it could be bad as the drive shaft flails around inside.

 

[jimk]

I agree with rmgill, there would be more, and perhaps continuous, loading going thru fewer wheel stations.

Ferret bevel box failure-Perhaps some failures are overdue. 20 years of squadie's abuse, followed by 20 years of neglect may set the stage for the nasty. Unless you can say "I went thru it" it's hard to know what's inside.

Keep in mind these[Stalwarts] are robust. They were built for extreme off road duty,and as HRD points out, while carrying a huge load. High load thru a small number of stations happens off road. And probably while in a low gear. The forces, hence danger, is greatest in the lowest gears. yet shock loads far exceed anything the engine can dish out. That's always a concern. And,there is always some factor of safety built in.

I am sure my driving will be an easy miles for this old girl. It will be street (or in water). Predictable and consistent. No racing, hole shots ,jumping, hill climbing, or tug of war contests for me. Just shows, parades, grocery store... Keep the difficult service aspect in mind, and if breaks add it to the list. Remember having a -SELECTABLE- driveline is the goal. Then choices can be had.

Wind up is hard on the driveline, too. Tracta joints may be the weakest link - more vulnerable to wind up than loading.

The purpose of reduction hubs is so the bevel boxes/shafts run higher speed with reduced load. In the Stalwarts case maybe also to fit beside the fuel tank. I'll bet that any diff in bevel gear diameter has something to do with cargo.

Finally, reliability is a relative term... these things are British.
JimK

HRD,
Not sure which vehicle your question directed at. Stalwart shafts are f to r tone can be pulled disabling drive to just one wheel.The others will still be driven.The front drive shaft front c-clip is tough to get your hands on. It can be done(so I have read).Apparently the front bevel boxes can be removed without tank(and crane) removal. From the looks of of mine that is easier, but not an easy task.And on my list. I currently have the front sun wheels out.

 

[ARMYMAN30YearsPlus]

Hey it is great to read this post on the British armor that you all have the one thing that kept popping into my mide was the time I went to Rijeka Croatia to coordinate the re-deployment of our Division equipment through the port. In one of the port staging areas there were hundreds of British armor and trucks some of them in bad shape. I saw two of the maintenance guys assigned to the unit and went over to talk to them. They were kinda upset because they saw the infrastructure we were putting in the port to get our stuff out and they complained that they were the only guys that were there and were responsible to get all of the equipment loaded. I know just from the flat tires I saw in the area that they were overwhelmed. We actually helped them get some of the stuff up while we were waiting and the maintainance nightmares some mentioned in the post may be due to the shortage of mechanics in the British and Canadian Armies rather than totally the vehicles fault. I really don't know but thought you all might like to hear about that encounter.

 

[hot rod deuce]

ok so i re checked the trany and you are right, where I got mixed up was that the drive shafts go OPOSITE directions on a ferret but, So when I turned the front shaft the other one went back wards, thus looking like it was a diff front to rear.

 

[davesgmc]

hey HRD, why do you have your ferret trans out? I was supposed to take mine out this winter for a rebuild and to make first gear operable again, but the M211 purchase kinda set that on the back burner for now.

 

[hot rod deuce]

I have it striped to a bear hull and I put every seal in the wheel station. Going to repaint inside and out. The motor will get new bearings too this way I know what I have.

 

[davesgmc]

WOW, lots of work for sure! I striped the interior of mone when I was restoring it, didnt take the eng or trans out, that was posed to be a winter project,,,,,didt happen this year, maybe next year though.

 

[ONTOS66]

Interesting information! When the bank account can handle it I'd like to get something armored (old tankers like stuff with thick skin). One of the alternatives to the joys of tracks, was one of the British wheeled vehicles that you have been talking about. How is the Ferret off road? I have no idea how the anal retentive folk in New Jersey would be about licensing something like that. I know that California was fair (at one time). Perhaps I'll wait till I retire back to Texas? In the mean time I'll continue to lurk and read .. and learn?
MORE PHOTOS!