School for Truckers

[simp5782]

So like most news we read they always leave out a few details when it doesnt fit their agenda lets look at the real chain of event this 23 yr old kid from houston tx is east bound going towards denver says hes lost his brakes witnesses report they first saw his trucks brakes smoking just past the 256 mp exit and please feel free to go look at a satalite veiw from exit 256 to the 263 .264 mile post as soon as he past the 256 is where his brake beguin to smoke which anyone thats operated a commercial vehicle in the northwest on occassion you will get your brakes hot and they do smoke but we usally just stay off them till they cool off when terrain permits now back to this event when he passed the 256 exit the very next thing you see is the ONLY run away area with jersey barriers between the traffic flow and the gravel slow down area so he had a one time chance probably before he knew he even had a problem and it is steep going down hill to the east through there ive run that route for 32 yrs and there is no other run away anything from there to the accident so all he could have done is take a busy crowded exit at 4.30 in the afternoon or try to ride it out to flat ground and probably would have with no problems at this point but BAM NOW THE ENTIRE INTERSTATE IS BLOCKED WITH TRUCKS BLOCKING HIM FROM TAKING THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE INTERSTATE OFF THE SHOLDER SO HE PICKS THE 3 ALREADY CRASHED TRUCKS TO COLIDE INTO IN STEAD OF SMALLER OBJECTS TO LAND IN! Now this kid from flatground TX at best has been a truck driver for a year and obviously had no mountain experiance in a commercial vehicle and any of us on here with the experiance will tell you we sweat going off of big mountain grades every time we do it because things can go wrong in a flash then the only thing that saves us is all of our past experiances on what to do at that moment and i was 21 and in the northwest trucking way back and this could have been any one of us so the real truth is there were no run away ramps for 7 miles before the accident they just wanted to hang this awful tragedy on someone because it was so awful we want someone to PAY when something happens that could have been out of anyones control and thats why 2.8 million people signed a petition to the governor of colorodo to reduce his sentence

Had he chose the appropriate gear for the grade, used his Jake his brakes wouldn't have burned up. His speed got up on him and he couldnt get it back down. Plain and simple. I went down it a few weeks back at 95k in 6th and never touched the brakes at all..

The videos I've seen they are smoking b4 the truck ramp and he was all over the road as he passed it even swerving to the fast lane.

 

[chucky]

You are correct IF he had done that IF he had done this me and you could pick this guy apart on what he did wrong and he did do some things WRONG FOR SURE ! Im not here to make excuses for a kid that had a year maybe under his belt he will have to live with what happend the rest of his life my argument is had this been a 23 yr old in his pickup truck slamed into these other people and burst into flames he would have maybe been written a failure to keep control of his vehicle by not stoping in time but he wouldnt have gotten 110 yrs in prison ! And flip the script this is your 23 yr old son or daughter that slams into another car full of people cause they were changing the radio station or playing with their phone 4 people die /get burnt up and other than the last minute mistake your kid committed caused the accident but the judge gives your kid 110 yrs oh well thats not going to happen but just swap the vehicle that was last to the crash now they want his head on a platter in a courtroom and sentenced him just that way ! Thats my beef with all of this ! Oh and i looked for hrs this morning and i could not find out if he even had jake brakes which makes all the difference in the world but if he didnt and he tried to shift and missed the gear at that point now he has a run away truck !

 

[simp5782]

You are correct IF he had done that IF he had done this me and you could pick this guy apart on what he did wrong and he did do some things WRONG FOR SURE ! Im not here to make excuses for a kid that had a year maybe under his belt he will have to live with what happend the rest of his life my argument is had this been a 23 yr old in his pickup truck slamed into these other people and burst into flames he would have maybe been written a failure to keep control of his vehicle by not stoping in time but he wouldnt have gotten 110 yrs in prison ! And flip the script this is your 23 yr old son or daughter that slams into another car full of people cause they were changing the radio station or playing with their phone 4 people die /get burnt up and other than the last minute mistake your kid committed caused the accident but the judge gives your kid 110 yrs oh well thats not going to happen but just swap the vehicle that was last to the crash now they want his head on a platter in a courtroom and sentenced him just that way ! Thats my beef with all of this ! Oh and i looked for hrs this morning and i could not find out if he even had jake brakes which makes all the difference in the world but if he didnt and he tried to shift and missed the gear at that point now he has a run away truck !

He had his sentence reduced. I said I wasn't for the 110yrs but I wasn't for just 10years. But you are responsible for what happens behind the wheel with your vehicle. He didn't do a pretrip and noticed his brakes were worn or caged or he just started down the mountain too fast. He should have refused the load if the trailer had issues. Or he should have gone down to i40 like lots of drivers do. Hind sight is 20/20 but the end of the day he was behind the wheel Noone else was.

The video of him blowing by traffic pretty much shows he's rolling in the video below.

He was in a freightliner. Regardless of what he had under the hood he had an engine brake.

 

[pevrs114]

The fact that churn-and-burn law firms advertise looking for potential plaintiffs for cases with commercial (read - deep pocket) defendants does NOT mean that having a CDL changes the legal standard.

I get what you're trying to say - there's more risk out there if you get in a crash in a CMV. There are also some limited examples where merely having a CDL can make life a little tougher.

But to say that any CDL holder is completely screwed in any court case merely because they have a CDL is hyperbole and it is unhelpful.

As to the CO truck driver, the main issue (and the trial judge even highlighted his frustrations) was due to mandatory minimums. The guy was charged with multiple counts of a manslaughter charge that carried a mandatory prison sentence. When they jury convicted him on all the counts, the judge had no choice but to impose the sentence on each count, which added up to 110 years.

That has zero to do with CMV and everything to do with the CO legislature.

The legal result would have been the same if it were a four-wheeler that caused the crash, all other factors being equal.

 

[chucky]

The fact that churn-and-burn law firms advertise looking for potential plaintiffs for cases with commercial (read - deep pocket) defendants does NOT mean that having a CDL changes the legal standard.

I get what you're trying to say - there's more risk out there if you get in a crash in a CMV. There are also some limited examples where merely having a CDL can make life a little tougher.

But to say that any CDL holder is completely screwed in any court case merely because they have a CDL is hyperbole and it is unhelpful.

As to the CO truck driver, the main issue (and the trial judge even highlighted his frustrations) was due to mandatory minimums. The guy was charged with multiple counts of a manslaughter charge that carried a mandatory prison sentence. When they jury convicted him on all the counts, the judge had no choice but to impose the sentence on each count, which added up to 110 years.

That has zero to do with CMV and everything to do with the CO legislature.

The legal result would have been the same if it were a four-wheeler that caused the crash, all other factors being equal.

I really dont think were ever going to agree on this cause youve seen what youve seen and i have seen what ive seen ! I have been in a commercial veh since the age of 4 every summer till i graduated high school then on my own 86 to 18 ive witnessed the money being hand directly to the crooked judges and prosecutors across this country mostly in the 70s it was rampant every time it would turn dark a local constable would pull us over and escort us to the local jail/coutrroom call and wake the judge up in the next room come in the room (and i almost could quote the speach) and some how when my dad would step up to the judge and hand him a hundred bucks back then (the 70s) and low and behold our sins have been clensed away just like that from cali to maine ! Maybe you were fortunate and worked with good judges and uncorupt cops and im happy for ya but outside of Mayberry lurks alot different kinds of courtrooms ! Afiend of mine has a trucking co they haul bandgear around the country for different bands he has a driver to leave a venue at 12.30 am one morning for roughly a 400 mi trip had plenty of time he runs his truck on cruise control all night till just before day light hes southbound on 75 in florida some time earlier a local man a little to drunk to be driving decides to pull over on the shoulder of 75 lights out some time later he awakes and decides to try and go on thinking hes a little more sober he pulls the car down in gear and pulls right out in front of my friends truck no lights on still drunk and my friend has a person passing him at the time and he winds up hitting the drunk but as usual the good lord looks out after fools and drunks and so it messes up the car and he screams bloody murder so off to the hospital he goes and there they take a blood sample at request of the officer so fast forward to court day the prosecution has had the (brain for the truck that records everything the truck does with the key turned on sent off and examined for the info inside and this is the reason a cdl holder can never win again ! It was the prosecutors case that the truck driver even though had been on cruise control all night on the speed limit that 36 times that night the truck had crept over the speed limit while going down rolling interstate grades where your crusie lets it coast then come back in to the set speed and continue on that the truck driver was an habitual speeder that night and if he wood have rode his brakes that 36 times which no one does he wouldnt have been at the location to hit the drunk which even though was over the legal limit but did live there with no lights on the court awarded the drunk 600,000 dollars and not cited for dui so since the prosection side knows there is a little black box on every commercial truck there is no one on this planet that can drive all night and not go over just a couple mph at some point in the trip and you cant argue the point that yes he wouldnt have been at this exact spot at this exact time to hit the drunk or the whatever this is what the trucking industry is up against now adays in courtrooms

 

[Ajax MD]

It is stunning and disappointing to me that during a time of increasing scarcity when the need for truckers is acute, that the Federal government is increasing administrative hurdles and burdens to people who are trying to become commercial truck drivers. We already have a serious shortage of these people.

I understand the need to balance safety with filling the jobs but I don't feel that these additional administrative costs do anything to make drivers safer.

 

[TomTime]

It is stunning and disappointing to me that during a time of increasing scarcity when the need for truckers is acute, that the Federal government is increasing administrative hurdles and burdens to people who are trying to become commercial truck drivers. We already have a serious shortage of these people.

I understand the need to balance safety with filling the jobs but I don't feel that these additional administrative costs do anything to make drivers safer.

Now that is something I can agree with!

 

[simp5782]

It is stunning and disappointing to me that during a time of increasing scarcity when the need for truckers is acute, that the Federal government is increasing administrative hurdles and burdens to people who are trying to become commercial truck drivers. We already have a serious shortage of these people.

I understand the need to balance safety with filling the jobs but I don't feel that these additional administrative costs do anything to make drivers safer.

There needs to be more training on entry level. It's obviously clear that most driving schools hand out certificates like it's a Walmart give away

 

[Ajax MD]

There needs to be more training on entry level. It's obviously clear that most driving schools hand out certificates like it's a Walmart give away

Scrounger (if you remember him) was a long haul guy for UPS for 20 years. I gained some insight from him about the industry and one of his major complaints is that the people administering tests are woefully ignorant and have never spent any time behind the wheel.

 

[simp5782]

Scrounger (if you remember him) was a long haul guy for UPS for 20 years. I gained some insight from him about the industry and one of his major complaints is that the people administering tests are woefully ignorant and have never spent any time behind the wheel.

Most carriers have their own schools. So they learn a certain way that may differ from other schools or companies. Most LTL drivers are horrible on the road. They tend back up traffic for miles trying to pass another governed truck, speed thru construction zones to make up time. Clog up fuel pumps cause they can't back up and do not want to park for their break time. Best to not go off what some LTL companies drivers do.

 

[pevrs114]

There needs to be more training on entry level. It's obviously clear that most driving schools hand out certificates like it's a Walmart give away

There's real merit to that, but this regulation change doesn't do that. It merely forces people to go through a school, which is just required to teach to the test.

There aren't even any minimum hour standards.

 

[pevrs114]

I really dont think were ever going to agree on this cause youve seen what youve seen and i have seen what ive seen ! I have been in a commercial veh since the age of 4 every summer till i graduated high school then on my own 86 to 18 ive witnessed the money being hand directly to the crooked judges and prosecutors across this country mostly in the 70s it was rampant every time it would turn dark a local constable would pull us over and escort us to the local jail/coutrroom call and wake the judge up in the next room come in the room (and i almost could quote the speach) and some how when my dad would step up to the judge and hand him a hundred bucks back then (the 70s) and low and behold our sins have been clensed away just like that from cali to maine ! Maybe you were fortunate and worked with good judges and uncorupt cops and im happy for ya but outside of Mayberry lurks alot different kinds of courtrooms ! Afiend of mine has a trucking co they haul bandgear around the country for different bands he has a driver to leave a venue at 12.30 am one morning for roughly a 400 mi trip had plenty of time he runs his truck on cruise control all night till just before day light hes southbound on 75 in florida some time earlier a local man a little to drunk to be driving decides to pull over on the shoulder of 75 lights out some time later he awakes and decides to try and go on thinking hes a little more sober he pulls the car down in gear and pulls right out in front of my friends truck no lights on still drunk and my friend has a person passing him at the time and he winds up hitting the drunk but as usual the good lord looks out after fools and drunks and so it messes up the car and he screams bloody murder so off to the hospital he goes and there they take a blood sample at request of the officer so fast forward to court day the prosecution has had the (brain for the truck that records everything the truck does with the key turned on sent off and examined for the info inside and this is the reason a cdl holder can never win again ! It was the prosecutors case that the truck driver even though had been on cruise control all night on the speed limit that 36 times that night the truck had crept over the speed limit while going down rolling interstate grades where your crusie lets it coast then come back in to the set speed and continue on that the truck driver was an habitual speeder that night and if he wood have rode his brakes that 36 times which no one does he wouldnt have been at the location to hit the drunk which even though was over the legal limit but did live there with no lights on the court awarded the drunk 600,000 dollars and not cited for dui so since the prosection side knows there is a little black box on every commercial truck there is no one on this planet that can drive all night and not go over just a couple mph at some point in the trip and you cant argue the point that yes he wouldnt have been at this exact spot at this exact time to hit the drunk or the whatever this is what the trucking industry is up against now adays in courtrooms

I really have a hard time reading your posts. If you would use punctuation and paragraphs it would make it much easier for me to understand. Please forgive me that I have trouble and need more structure.

Point 1 - you're arguing that because courts were corrupt in the '70's (before CDL's even existed, might I point out), that no CDL holder can ever get a fair trial today? Do you realize the 1970's was 50 years ago?

Your second point, I still haven't grasped exactly what you're trying to say. There's some serious conflation of criminal and civil stuff going on there, and there's simply no way it was the same trial. You're using secondhand information from some civil trial years ago to prove that no CDL holder can ever win in court, simply because the plaintiff's lawyer (not a prosecutor, btw) pulled out all the stops to go after him?

I think at this point I do agree on one thing: we aren't going to convince each other. The court system is totally rigged in your opinion, and there's no way a CDL holder will ever get a fair shake. I've had a fair amount of experience in court, and I know a fair number of legal professionals. Based on that info, I do disagree with you on your points.

I admire your passion and I think you make some good points, even if I do disagree with your conclusions.

 

[chucky]

I really have a hard time reading your posts. If you would use punctuation and paragraphs it would make it much easier for me to understand. Please forgive me that I have trouble and need more structure.

Point 1 - you're arguing that because courts were corrupt in the '70's (before CDL's even existed, might I point out), that no CDL holder can ever get a fair trial today? Do you realize the 1970's was 50 years ago?

Your second point, I still haven't grasped exactly what you're trying to say. There's some serious conflation of criminal and civil stuff going on there, and there's simply no way it was the same trial. You're using secondhand information from some civil trial years ago to prove that no CDL holder can ever win in court, simply because the plaintiff's lawyer (not a prosecutor, btw) pulled out all the stops to go after him?

I think at this point I do agree on one thing: we aren't going to convince each other. The court system is totally rigged in your opinion, and there's no way a CDL holder will ever get a fair shake. I've had a fair amount of experience in court, and I know a fair number of legal professionals. Based on that info, I do disagree with you on your points.

I admire your passion and I think you make some good points, even if I do disagree with your conclusions.

LOL there must be something in the air this week ! While you still know everything about cdl's and the trucking business and commercial drivers in general . Pack your suitcase and go give us your veiw of it all for the next couple of years and be sure to tell em all about LE and courtroom experience . Im positive any of the the folks you will be conversing with on the shoulder of the road and in the scale houses will be so impressed by your knowledge of what they are going to do or not do to you they will piss thier selves ! They will probably be so amused with your new wide eyed view of what you thought you knew they will just tear up your tickets and send you on your way ! And your point 1 yes they were called chauffeurs and special chauffeurs before cdls came along i didnt mention that to confuse the point . The point was for that 50 years i had a front row seat to what ive shared with you . So maybe we should hear about all your years of commercial driving all over the U.S.and Canada and what youve seen ! And no i dont think the entire court system is corrupt i think the way the prosecutors can use the computers on the com. veh. to split hairs of where the com. veh. would or would not have been if they had used their brakes while on cruise control at the speed limit to where the truck driver doesnt have a chance of wining his case because the prosecutor wont ever pull the civilian automobile computer records just the com. drivers ! So take the time out to talk to pick any six big trucking company saftey dept lawyers if you can get to them and let them tell you what they see every day in court !