School me in Deuce u joints, flanges, driveshafts and balancing

[gentrysgarage]

School me in Deuce u joints, flanges and driveshafts

OK People I am starting to research and stockpile the next phase of my M135 Extended Service Program and we are up to driveshafts. I am not having any luck with the companion flange for the M35A3 jackshaft to t-136-27 transfercase, NSN 2520-01-408-3183, but I have another route. I have already bought a Spicer 1550 to replace the bearing cups on the M35A3 jackshaft for the Eaton transmission side and I can use the M35A2 flange yoke and Spicer 5-115X u joint and the jackshaft is taken care of. Now the questions.........

The rear companion flange on the T-136-27 is the Spicer 5-115X, I have heard this has not always been the case with a plethora of universal joints...although I think the only other joint would be the 1410 like the rear to rear axle and the front driveshafts have? Is this the case...if so do the companion flange and parking brake interchange from the earlier T-136?

And while we are talking T-136 is the front driveshaft output and the rear driveshaft output 1 5/8" and how many splines do they have?

The M135 Eaton H110 axle/driveshaft has a 1410 universal joint for both front and rear, and the companion flange has a 3.75 bolt circle wear as the M35s 1410 has a bolt circle of 4.75. I would like to upgrade to the larger bolt circle if financially feasible (read not to much dinero here!) . Does anybody know the pinion diameter and spline count of the Rockwell and Eaton Axles?

OK lastly on balancing:

Best senerio is upgrading all joints to the 5-115X u-joints and flanges...not an issue on balancing.

Second senerio is having the same bolt center flanges (4.75 bolt circle) and 1410 both sides front axle (no problem here) but the rear being the 5-115X on one side and 1410 at axle(with the 3.75 bolt circle)....issues with balancing?

Lastly the desperate senerio Front shaft with 4.75 bolt circle flange at transfercase and 3.75 flanges at axle (of course with 1410 u-joints). the rear driveshaft is much worse off with 5-115X u-joint and flange and the 3.75 1410 flanges at the rear...we know where the fuse is in this system...will I be breaking u-joints or have a balance issue with this senerio?

As always Thanks in Advance!

 

[montaillou]

One way I find information out is looking for people that supply parts and mods for Rockwell axles. There are a few out there as Rockwells have been a fav of the rock crawling crowd. Not recommending you buy anything from them, but you'll find data about parts there, and where they concentrate their actions (sales). Places like Ouverson & Kyptonite, for instance.

 

[gentrysgarage]

Thanks Montaillou, I have been doing Google/yahoo/bing/pirate4x4.com...etc searches and not really getting anywhere...I went to the "Mudders" sites and got conflicting measurement of 1.5 vs 1.58 on SS. Also the site said all inputs and outputs the same on the T-136.....Can anyone verify the following:

4 Bolt Flat Flange 2.5 Ton Rockwell 10 Spine Stock Pinion Yoke Product Description:

2.5 TON ROCKWELL

(N.O.S.) "NEW OLD STOCK"

STANDARD 10 SPLINE

THESE ARE FOR THE 2.5 TON ROCKWELL PINION SHAFT INPUT OR

THE ROCKWELL T136 TRANSFER CASE INPUT/OUT PUTS

4 BOLT FLAT FLANGE

***NOTE THIS WILL NOT FIT SCS-CYCLONE-PRO FAB OR ANY OTHER TRANSER CASE WITH A 10 SPLINE X 1.750" SHAFT. THE NOS YOKE IS TOO SMALL (10 SPLINE X 1.50" SHAFT) AND WILL NOT FIT***

Thanks!

 

[gentrysgarage]

eGag is saying 1 5/8 soooo some one is wrong.....

 

[shannondeese]

Call Jesse at High Angle Driveline. He has built a bunch of Deuce driveshafts for me. He makes his own flanges among most other driveline components.

 

[gringeltaube]

eGag is saying 1 5/8 soooo some one is wrong.....

... Such a simple question and it is still up, unanswered.........?


"eGag" has it right: 10 splines on Ø 1-5/8".
All 3 shafts of the M44-series -21 & -27 T-cases, as well as all diff pinion shafts share the same splined end - and take the same (P/N 7521276) companion flange.

Pictured below is a T136-27 output shaft:


And here are the typical flange dims:

 

[Menaces Nemesis]

You da man G... simple question for you, not so much for us commonfolk

 

[gentrysgarage]

THANKS GRINGELTAUBE!!!!
I trust SS people sooooo much more than any others!


Shannondeese Jesse was the go -to guy for the Rock Crawler community, I will contact him and one other shop and ask about the balancing once I get the transfercase in place and have a solid idea of driveshaft length so I can get a price on new shafts and kill 2 birds with one stone. This is coming soon as the front spring hanger project is 95% done and this is my next step! I will post up what they say about balancing and using mismatched companion flanges (front and rear) and mismatched u-joint (rear) . I haven't given up on changing out the pinion yokes yet...just worst case senerio option.!

Again Thanks Guys!!!

 

[gentrysgarage]

I dug out my new ring and pinions for the h110 and here is what I got:

10 spline
And from spicer I get this

Am I correct that I need to be searching for the long discontinued 4-1-2661 with 0.020 clearance?
Thanks

 

[gringeltaube]

Am I correct that I need to be searching for the long discontinued 4-1-2661 with 0.020 clearance?

Yes, that's the only one that fits there - if you want to use Deuce propeller shafts.

But if it comes out that those 4-1-2661 are made of unobtainium, I'd just respline and sleeve the flanges from the M35 - which are plentiful and cheap.

 

[gentrysgarage]

Hi gringeltaube,
After almost a week of searching it is not exactly unobtanium, found a "usable" used one at a truck wrecker for 245.00. If you have had the experiences I have with med-large truck wreckers...their definition of usable has them tell me that an 8.3 flywheel adapter is the same as a 5.9. Spend the money on something like that you get a reminder THUMP to not believe all that is said and 1/2 you see and use all available means (search engines, search for manuals/parts catalog and the best is here on SS!) at your disposal.

Always looking for another way to skin a cat when facing a brick wall with obsolete parts made out of that rare alloy unobtanium, I look for a plan B. I think I got it! I am taking a gamble here and trying this yoke https://www.ebay.com/itm/Spicer-End...83.l10137.c10&nordt=true&rt=nc&orig_cvip=true .


NOTE: I did not pay 75.00 but i did gamble some...here are the specs:


I am banking on the fact that I can get a seal with a .125 smaller bore and a washer a little over 5/16" thicker will do the dead!

Another question...not 2 years ago you could easily find seal catalogs with interchanges and sorted by dimensions...its not so easy any of you guys have a link to a pdf of the old school seal catalogs?

Thanks

P.S. Don't buy from Active Truck Parts in CO, got a great used 8.3 flywheel housing that I had to EDM and helicoil all the mounting bolts on (before I learned my lesson) to sell ya!

 

[Floridianson]

I have a couple of NOS flanges let me go and find them and get pics.

 

[M37M35]

Another question...not 2 years ago you could easily find seal catalogs with interchanges and sorted by dimensions...its not so easy any of you guys have a link to a pdf of the old school seal catalogs?

Any of these help you?

https://www.allsealsinc.com/pdfs/Timken_Seal_Interchange_and_Cross_Reference_Guide.pdf

https://www.timken.com/pdf/7707_National%20Indust%20Seals%20Catalog.pdf

CR Seal Finder

www.skfextranet.com

 

[gringeltaube]

I am taking a gamble here and trying this yoke.......

Not sure what you got there since the link says listing has ended.... so are you talking about a #230897 end yoke??
But then, didn't you say you wanted to upgrade to the 5-115X U-joints, all around? I'm confused because that yoke in the table above is for the 1550 series U-joints (D = 1.375").

The 1500-series 5-115X would take a BP-style end yoke with E = 4-9/16" and D = 1-9/16"

 

[gentrysgarage]

Not sure what you got there since the link says listing has ended.... so are you talking about a #230897 end yoke??
But then, didn't you say you wanted to upgrade to the 5-115X U-joints, all around? I'm confused because that yoke in the table above is for the 1550 series U-joints (D = 1.375").

The 1500-series 5-115X would take a BP-style end yoke with E = 4-9/16" and D = 1-9/16"

View attachment 797610

 

[gentrysgarage]

Any of these help you?

EXACTLY what I was looking for Thanks M37M35!

 

[gentrysgarage]

Gringeltaube, everything I typed yesterday in my reply to you DID NOT POST! It seems sometimes when attaching pictures it loses the typing. I will retype my reply when I can today I will be raising the transmission and transfer case...it might be a looonnnnggggg fun day!

 

[gringeltaube]

Gringeltaube, everything I typed yesterday in my reply to you DID NOT POST!

Ha... and I thought that post was complete and clear - since pictures are worth a thousand words... and from seeing your pics it is quite obvious to me what route you finally went.

 

[gentrysgarage]

Ha... and I thought that post was complete and clear - since pictures are worth a thousand words... and from seeing your pics it is quite obvious to me what route you finally went.

Thanks gringeltaube for understanding..it takes me so long to type! I do want to point out that the BEEFY military joint has a cool tin pot over the seal for the bearing caps and the Mil joint is machined alittle higher on the trunion than the civilian joint. While it is fine for set-up, I (thanks to the M35A3 Parts TM!) I will be looking for Spicer 3-6-228X bearing caps.

Thanks Again to all who replied!

 

[gentrysgarage]

One more addendum the proper bearing caps with the sheetmetal sheild are found on the Spicer SPL70X permanently lubed ujoint.