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School me on Cat ET kits

AKPacker

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I'm looking to get Cat ET so that I can run diagnostics on my truck's C7 and adjust the speedometer calibration after I install Ecohubs. I see that there are multiple Cat ET kits for sale that come with the software, communication adapter, and various cables that can run anywhere from ~$150 up into the thousands depending on the source. Can someone recommend a good/reasonably priced kit with the correct cable for A1R trucks?
 

Mile's72

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If you have a laptop with TeamViewer I can get it installed for $150 but you will need to purchase a Nexiq data link from Amazon. The one you will need is around $800, do t by the cheaper version. It’s a Chinese knockoff and will crash in about a year
 

GeneralDisorder

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I build MSD V4 laptops for our trucks if you are interested. I have a black SWICE kit available at the moment. Black SWICE kit and Dell 7214 with all manuals, CAT ET, etc is about $2500. These will not only communicate with the truck but with the electronic manuals it will walk you through the troubleshooting steps and the SWICE kit has additional analog test equipment (pressure, current clamp, etc) and a really nice Keysight (HP) DVOM with probe kit, etc. Plus the manuals have all the parts lists, service procedures, operators manuals, etc, etc. This is what the Army uses. Oh - and the SWICE kit is wireless to the J1939 connector.
 
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Third From Texas

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Keep in mid that you don't have to break the bank for something that likely won't see a ton of use.

I ended up purchasing a used DPA4+ direct form Dearborn for $150 off eBay.
I then screwed around with a half dozen cables (that clearly were not wired correctly) and finally just purchased an actual Dearborn cable for $70.
The software is available for all over the Interwebz (good sources are military forums and social media groups).

But as other's have said, beware the Chinese crap. And be especially mindful of cables. I literally went thru half a dozen "knockoff" cables that were pinned out in all sorts of wrong and would have smoked the adaptor had I just plugged it in and turned it on.

Laptops are a cheap, just get one with a real OS and make sure it checks all the boxes for the software.
*some of the related software won't run on the cheesie "Windows in S-Mode" operating system that is slapped on the cheapest craptops these days
 
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GeneralDisorder

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Yeah the DPA 3/4/5 is a good J1939 interface adapter. The military used them in the STE-ICE kits and they are still in the system available to order for unit level diagnostics.

That's just part of what the military laptops do though. They also have all the (gigabytes of) manuals integrated such that you can have the diagnostics integrated with the manuals and diagrams. Even the DMM is wirelessly connected so that readings taken are integrated into the troubleshooting process. Plus you have the parts manuals and the wiring diagrams and everything is searchable, etc. It's VASTLY more than a simple "scan tool".
 

AKPacker

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Thanks for the info everyone. @GeneralDisorder, that kit sounds pretty skookum, it includes the latest manuals for the A1R trucks and everything required for the wireless connection to the truck? How user friendly is the diagnostics interface?
 

GeneralDisorder

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Thanks for the info everyone. @GeneralDisorder, that kit sounds pretty skookum, it includes the latest manuals for the A1R trucks and everything required for the wireless connection to the truck? How user friendly is the diagnostics interface?
Correct. It has the A1R and the A1P2 which really helps with A1R information because the A1P2 shares the C7 and later Allison. The military doesn't call them A1R - they just call it an A1 with a serial number above 100,000

User friendly..... I mean it's designed for soldiers to use..... There's a learning curve like everything else but it certainly doesn't require a lot of computer knowledge. It's Windows 10. It's a rugged water resistant laptop with an annoyingly small screen. The keyboard is cramped and the keys suck for typing. The touchpad..... it's a touchpad - you wish it was a real mouse. LoL. The wiring diagram viewing window is WAY too small to be useful - but you can pull up the full sized image since it shows the filepath..... you can also hookup an external monitor and keyboard and have a better user experience.

Is it perfect? Hell no. Is it the only game in town for what it does? Yeah in some respects it kinda is. Especially for the manuals and parts information. The FMTV technical manuals went electronic with the A1 in MY 2000 and there aren't any paper copies that I'm aware of. And the electronic manuals don't function without the full EMS software - because they are interactive in ways that a regular document like a PDF can't recreate.
 

fuzzytoaster

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Military Dearborn DPA4+ adapter off ebay - $150
CAT ET off ebay - $40
Wabco Toolbox off ebay - $29.99
Asking certain SS members for support software - free
Cheap older toughbook off ebay with serial port + new battery - $299-ish

Things can be had if you want to piece them together. I did this and it's been an excellent tool for more than just FMTVA1 diagnostics.
 

DeMilitarized

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Military Dearborn DPA4+ adapter off ebay - $150
CAT ET off ebay - $40
Wabco Toolbox off ebay - $29.99
Asking certain SS members for support software - free
Cheap older toughbook off ebay with serial port + new battery - $299-ish

Things can be had if you want to piece them together. I did this and it's been an excellent tool for more than just FMTVA1 diagnostics.
I have an entire software package for free for your truck(wabaco, cat et, allison, dana) PM me your email. Only need a chinese nexiq adapter off ebay and a few hours to screw around installing the software and your off to the races.
 

GeneralDisorder

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I have an entire software package for free for your truck(wabaco, cat et, allison, dana) PM me your email. Only need a chinese nexiq adapter off ebay and a few hours to screw around installing the software and your off to the races.
Which gives you codes and maybe some useful live data. Don't get me wrong - it's the critical first step. But it doesn't tell you what to do with the strings of digits you get out of it. It's just one piece of a much larger puzzle. And yeah you can pull the codes, ponder at the live data with no other frame of reference than your own experience and what you can glean from google searches on the Errornet (assuming you have Errornet access). You might solve your problem even - but there's even odds that you'll just generate a whole bunch more questions like what am I supposed to be seeing here? What part is that code referring to? Where is it located? What are the specifications? - what constitutes valid data? what are the component level test procedures? what's the part number? What's the replacement procedure? What are the torque values? What are the tips and tricks that will make the job easier? What tools and equipment will you need? How many personnel are required? etc, etc.

But then I'm a professional technician so this stuff matters to me. I suppose it's a risk aversion thing. If there's a source for all that data - I want it locally available offline even if I might not use it.
 

DeMilitarized

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Which gives you codes and maybe some useful live data. Don't get me wrong - it's the critical first step. But it doesn't tell you what to do with the strings of digits you get out of it. It's just one piece of a much larger puzzle. And yeah you can pull the codes, ponder at the live data with no other frame of reference than your own experience and what you can glean from google searches on the Errornet (assuming you have Errornet access). You might solve your problem even - but there's even odds that you'll just generate a whole bunch more questions like what am I supposed to be seeing here? What part is that code referring to? Where is it located? What are the specifications? - what constitutes valid data? what are the component level test procedures? what's the part number? What's the replacement procedure? What are the torque values? What are the tips and tricks that will make the job easier? What tools and equipment will you need? How many personnel are required? etc, etc.
IDK what you mean by interpreting the code at all. You simply connect the adapter to the laptop and open the program you want to diagnose and select j1707 for anything but the engine which is j1939 protocol and the software will tell you the error code then you can diagnose the problem from there. Cat ET allows you to do all sorts of tests and diagnostics that can do 90% of any troubleshooting a TM would give you.
 

GeneralDisorder

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IDK what you mean by interpreting the code at all. You simply connect the adapter to the laptop and open the program you want to diagnose and select j1707 for anything but the engine which is j1939 protocol and the software will tell you the error code then you can diagnose the problem from there. Cat ET allows you to do all sorts of tests and diagnostics that can do 90% of any troubleshooting a TM would give you.
Oh I'm well aware of what it does and how it works. I do diagnostics and re-rates for people. But a scan tool isn't a shop manual. That's why at my shop I have multiple scan tools, a PICOScope, DVOM's, and a subscription to Shopkey (Snap-On/Mitchell) and other resources.

You are ignoring all the benefits of the TM's *besides* troubleshooting. And CAT ET can show you a code - it can't explain to you how the circuit is wired in an Army truck. That's not it's job. You need wiring diagrams for that. That's just one example of MANY reasons you want the TM's, as well as every other resource (to include this forum) available to your diagnostic journey.
 

DeMilitarized

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Oh I'm well aware of what it does and how it works. I do diagnostics and re-rates for people. But a scan tool isn't a shop manual. That's why at my shop I have multiple scan tools, a PICOScope, DVOM's, and a subscription to Shopkey (Snap-On/Mitchell) and other resources.

You are ignoring all the benefits of the TM's *besides* troubleshooting. And CAT ET can show you a code - it can't explain to you how the circuit is wired in an Army truck. That's not it's job. You need wiring diagrams for that. That's just one example of MANY reasons you want the TM's, as well as every other resource (to include this forum) available to your diagnostic journey.
I agree so distributing those TM's free of cost would help the hobby tremendously but in fact distribution of them at all is illegal because the a1r tm is not for distribution.
 

GeneralDisorder

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I agree so distributing those TM's free of cost would help the hobby tremendously but in fact distribution of them at all is illegal because the a1r tm is not for distribution.
The reality is that no one actually cares - it's a cargo truck not a weapon system. Ukraine has all of the manuals and a whole bunch of MSD V3's - I know units that were directed to turn some of their equipment in for disposition to Ukraine. Not to mention we gave them the TRUCKS themselves including the HIMARS which IS a weapons system so they have those TM's also. I'm sure Russia has captured a few copies by now. Pretty soon it's going to be on ebay for $50. MOST of the ICE kits sold on ebay still had their older version EMS and TM's on disc included in the kits (usually unopened). DLA didn't care and wasn't directed to remove them obviously. Also it's a moot point - in the digital age if you want it secure you need to protect it with public/private key encryption. They didn't. So now they get to watch it get loose on the internet for everyone's pleasure. 🤷‍♂️

It's kinda like how marijuana is federally illegal...... yeah good luck with enforcing that :ROFLMAO:

Also they ARE for distribution. They can be distributed to contractors - and obviously to NATO allies. And apparently to former soviet states that aren't NATO partners.... The only real issue with posting the stuff online is that it takes gigabytes of storage. I've already posted the schematics for the A1 and A1R to archive.org for everyone but those by themselves are small downloads.
 
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fuzzytoaster

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The reality is that no one actually cares - it's a cargo truck not a weapon system. Ukraine has all of the manuals and a whole bunch of MSD V3's - I know units that were directed to turn some of their equipment in for disposition to Ukraine. Not to mention we gave them the TRUCKS themselves including the HIMARS which IS a weapons system so they have those TM's also. I'm sure Russia has captured a few copies by now. Pretty soon it's going to be on ebay for $50. MOST of the ICE kits sold on ebay still had their older version EMS and TM's on disc included in the kits (usually unopened). DLA didn't care and wasn't directed to remove them obviously. Also it's a moot point - in the digital age if you want it secure you need to protect it with public/private key encryption. They didn't. So now they get to watch it get loose on the internet for everyone's pleasure. 🤷‍♂️

It's kinda like how marijuana is federally illegal...... yeah good luck with enforcing that :ROFLMAO:

Also they ARE for distribution. They can be distributed to contractors - and obviously to NATO allies. And apparently to former soviet states that aren't NATO partners.... The only real issue with posting the stuff online is that it takes gigabytes of storage. I've already posted the schematics for the A1 and A1R to archive.org for everyone but those by themselves are small downloads.
Eesh.. that's not a good look for the hobby and this community. It's not released for public distribution so it means just that. I don't agree that these TMs should still be classified since they sell the trucks to the public but since when did the military care about common sense? It wasn't there when I was in. :p
 

GeneralDisorder

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Eesh.. that's not a good look for the hobby and this community. It's not released for public distribution so it means just that. I don't agree that these TMs should still be classified since they sell the trucks to the public but since when did the military care about common sense? It wasn't there when I was in. :p
So explain why DLA sells the ICE kits on Govplanet with these supposedly "restricted distribution" TM's on CD's in the kit?

They make the units pull the hard drives out of the MSD's. But they leave the sealed discs with all the TM's on them. Hundreds have been sold on eBay with these discs.

So in a very real sense the same government that claims they are restricted is selling them to anyone with a Govplanet account. :unsure:

Also when a unit gets an updated CD/DVD with new manuals - the old ones just go in the trash. They don't destroy them or anything. They literally just toss them out with the municipal garbage service. They aren't in any way restricted or even minimally password protected. So in theory there's thousands of these discs in landfills across America waiting to be discovered by a trash collector, etc.

If you understood how this stuff is viewed and treated by the military at the unit level and how much of it is floating around on and off the Errornet you would realize it's a lost cause. The horse left the barn AND it's on fire.
 
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Third From Texas

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Not diagnostic-related, but still on topic:

I use CAT ET on my laptop with the DPA4+ for diagnostics.

But I also like to see what's happening when the truck is in operation. So I added a BlueFire and a $50 tablet. The BlueFire taps into the same J1939 port and displays the data via a bluetooth connection.


The Bluefire app is pretty customizable. (you just tell it which gauges you want to see and drag them into the position you want). I did power unit with a separate 12v lead after one user claims his 24v fried the adaptor.

Not my image, but it shows the concept.




387121273_1000616131170546_6804282602052482727_n.jpg
 

AKPacker

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Thanks for all the info and advice! I'd love to have one of the full featured SWICE kits, but I think that will have to wait a bit. There's not much room left in the budget at the moment after Ecohubs, new tires, and tools are accounted for.

I'll probably start with the Dearborn adapter + Cat ET + a cheap laptop since the initial goal is just to recalibrate the speedo and provide basic diagnostic capability.
 
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