Second Gear in US m37's and variants US models Not Synchro'd

[m376x6]

Hi folks, a lot of confusion on some posts as to whether or not second gear in US versions of the M37, M43 and their variants are synchro'd. They are not. The early 88 series in either military or civilian version were not synchro'd in second gear. The military and civilian versions of the NP 420 are not synchro'd in second gear either. I have heard some rumor that there may have been a version of thew NP 420 that is synchro'd in second but I have yet to see any transmission of this nature or have seen any parts or reference to a version where there is a synchro set up for second gearfrom either a factory source or aftermarket. I would dearly love to see one, or even have the chance to get one. To calm the flames that are sure to ensue, please post a pic of the internals of this phantom transmission and include a picture of the outside rear portion of the transmission case with lower cluster gear bearing retainer in place. many early NP 435's were confused with NP 420's and this may be the cause for the confusion. Thanks.

Oh by the way, to date 29 M37's and M43's restored, countless others worked on. 44 M35's and all the variants. Two 5 tons, one a tractor and the other a dump, rebuilding both a transmission and transfer in these is the main reason I quit doing them. The Loveland ski resort still has the dump I sold them many years ago as I understand. Two M715's, (who designed that engine?). More trailers than I care to remember including 21 inflatable chemical/biological trailers with all the little goodies on these neat set ups. Too many to remember aluminum bridge pontoon boats. Oh yeah, two M656 8X8 cargo trucks, they were a blast.

Bryan

 

[SasquatchSanta]

RE: Second Gear in US m37

Huuummm ... I thought the late model B1 transmissions were synchro'd.

I've got a brand spanking new late model M37 transmission out in the garage but it too far below zero to get into it.

 

[zak]

Whats your opinion of the Canadian version? Its seems to better than the first series, but how about the later one? Is there any problems with this trans

 

[CGarbee]

Re: RE: Second Gear in US m37

Huuummm ... I thought the late model B1 transmissions were synchro'd. .

Just in third and forth gear.

Bryan has got as good a line as any as to why the rumor that they are fully synchronized likely exists... I have been told by folks about the same phantom transmission and had figured that it was a confusion between the military and civilian NP420's used by Dodge and was thinking that it was the NP420 from the WM300 (my civilian truck was a B2...), but have been informed that is incorrect and that the civilian NP420 was no more synchronized than the military version. I'm leaning to thinking that his supposition that the NP435 is getting confused with the NP420 in civilian use might be the correct source of the confusion...

I've got five M37's in the backyard right now (and have multiple spare transmissions in the shop) that are split between early and late models and none of them have synchros for anything other than third and forth gear. I also have the TM's on the shelf and they don't mention the transmissions being synchronized in anything other than third and forth either...

I have no opinions about the Canadian transmission as I have never driven a truck with one, nor worked upon one...

 

[Bill W]

RE: Re: RE: Second Gear in US m37

Both the early and late trannies on the 37 are syncro'ed in 3rd & 4th which if you start off the line in 2nd gear your all set. The only confusion I've come across was people thinking the early 37 trannies were the same as the non syncro'ed "Crashbox" trannies that were in the pre 1957 (civie) Powerwagons
I've heard ( second hand ) the CDN M-37 tranny ( T-98?) is fully syncro'ed

 

[m376x6]

I've owned just one Canadian model M37 and it was in sad, very sad shape. I parted it out and never opened up the transmission. At first I thought it was a standard m37 (read US) transmission but but after examining it a little closer figured it was something else. The hood was modified to have the nose sit a little farther forward and that was to accomodate a 251 which is two inches longer than the 230. I didn't have the pieces long as some fella wanted them for a conversion for his truck. He liked the idea of the 251 for more power. This far south of the border is why I imagine they are a rare bird indeed here.
The old spur gear trannies in the WC's and the civilian PW's, what a basic transmission, noisy, cheap to build, and very very tough. Have taken a couple apart, but have never rebuilt or used one.

Bryan

 

[amanco]

Kinda glad to hear all this. Good t know my trans is working just fine! No syncros out. My trans seems to have a very wide stance, I mean shift pattern. Is this typical? Would a new shifter fork top solve this problem (if there is one). Can the late style NP420 top (extra reverse lever) be adapted to be used on the early style trans? AB Linn seems to have an endless supply of these.

 

[maddawg308]

AAAHHH!!! CHROME SPRAY PAINT! MY EYES! MY EYES!!

 

[zak]

I left out in my first post that the canadian trans is syncro-ed in 2nd. Reverse is to right and up- instead of down.

 

[citizensoldier]

Thats Chrysler silver.. Hey Zak how about I barrow that trans and try it out.. I will give a full report..LOL
I am finding I like most of the changes our northern brothers do to there trucks.. They find out what trouble we have with them and make it better. I have passed up two Canadian truck is the last two years.. I wish I had not..
Better motor and better trans in IMHO.. All hard tops too.. Now if I could just find a nice PTO like you have mounted there..

 

[zak]

I'd have to take it out of the truck......... Too bad they only made 5000 trucks makes it kinda hard to find parts, like 251 cranks.

 

[citizensoldier]

Yep and the PTO's are even harder to find.. Very few winch trucks.. Nice job Zak... Hey I have a cousin that lives in Ortonville.. Do you know a Scott Neimi ? I think he is your neighbor?

 

[knattrass]

OK - something is wrong here. You guys went ga..ga over the tran/engine. I got stuck on how nice Larry built the wood buck to move it around and it was probably in body position when it was on the casters. Yikes....

 

[zak]

Don't know him...................

 

[m376x6]

Kinda glad to hear all this. Good t know my trans is working just fine! No syncros out. My trans seems to have a very wide stance, I mean shift pattern. Is this typical? Would a new shifter fork top solve this problem (if there is one). Can the late style NP420 top (extra reverse lever) be adapted to be used on the early style trans? AB Linn seems to have an endless supply of these.

Yep, the shift down from first to second takes about ten yards of travel, and if it's cold, it feels like you're trying to move it through concrete. AB Linn has shift tops for the B1 series, I have bought one as a spare and they are nice. The early and late series M37 transmissions are interchangeable as a whole unit. Nothing between them is interchangeable internally. As far as trying modify the B1 top to work on an 88 series, never even thought of it and have no idea if it could be possible to do it. Just as an idea, if you are having some serious problems with an older series transmission rather than invest a great deal of time and money into an older one, you might locate the newer series and install it. On my trucks if it is cold out and I start out in first and try to shift up to second, a lot of times the force of the cold gear oil alone keeps the shift lever from moving and I have to almost come to a complete stop to ease up on the force of the first gear to allow it to slide on the main shaft. Also if your shick shift seems to make a really wide swing side to side and seems extra sloppy, sometimes the bolt holding the base of the gear shift lever to the stub coming out of the top of tranny may not be tight enough.

Bryan