seeking CUCV IP Replacement how-to

[Bighorn]

I got this one. I hope it works...
http://www.dcpcart.com/OScart/product_info.php/1982-fuel-injection-pump-62l-diesels-heavy-duty-p-122

Or this;
Oregonfuelinjection.com
https://oregonfuelinjection.com/


They built me a pump to my specification.
Sent me that pump within a week and the installation gaskets I also ordered.
You install the pump and send them back your core for a $300 credit.
After return shipping and including the gaskets it was about $600.

They rebuilt pump they sent me was already primed.
I didn't need to loosen lines or anything.
I got in and cranked the engine.
Started up after 20 seconds of cranking in two sessions.
M1009 runs great and idles steady.
No more seepage of diesel.
Starts instantly after glow time down to 26 degrees (coldest so far this season).

 

[85CUCVtom]

What is their any distinct advantage to sending in your pump for rebuild versus buying a rebuilt unit with the same spec and sending in your original as a core?

I've been thinking about this because I'm doing my pump and injectors this winter and I can't think of and pro's or con's. I plan on using Oregon Fuel Injection.


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[Bighorn]

In my case I wanted them to know how and where I plan to use my m1009.
I am on a contract here till 2020.
I live and work at 9,000 feet elevation and the winter temps get down to minus 40.
There is also a 10% grade down to town for supplies.
They said an arctic pump setup might be best.
So they built a pump for me based on that information.
The model number of pump they sent me was different than my core but they noted that on my receipt.
Certainly runs well.
The biggest improvement is smooth idle, power delivery is steady, and no leaks.
My old pump leaked out the bowl and around the shaft.
I can't find the receipt right now to say which pump they sent me.
Whatever it is, I will find out how well it works this winter.

 

[corelokt]

Here's a reply I received elsewhere.
Depress advance lever(engine warm, no cold advance circuit) a slight fish bite (JUST begin to detect an occasional interruption to smoothness), means timing is about perfect. if rpm's just slow, too far advanced. If it stumbles, dies, fish bites really bad, engine shakes, too retarded.

 

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Here's a reply I received elsewhere.
Depress advance lever(engine warm, no cold advance circuit) a slight fish bite (JUST begin to detect an occasional interruption to smoothness), means timing is about perfect. if rpm's just slow, too far advanced. If it stumbles, dies, fish bites really bad, engine shakes, too retarded.

Thanks for your patience with my newbieness.

Is the "advance lever" the thing the cold advance solenoid (1 below) pushes on? Does "depress advance lever" mean push it all the way? The TM talks about rotating the pump to retard the timing, but it doesn't say which way. Some guy on the internet said rotating the top of the pump toward the driver's side advances the timing. Is that correct?

 

[Bighorn]

Thanks for your patience with my newbieness.

Is the "advance lever" the thing the cold advance solenoid (1 below) pushes on? Does "depress advance lever" mean push it all the way? The TM talks about rotating the pump to retard the timing, but it doesn't say which way. Some guy on the internet said rotating the top of the pump toward the driver's side advances the timing. Is that correct?
View attachment 699721

Be careful screwing around with your timing.
Essentially without proper equipment, nobody knows how much is too much or what is exactly correct for your rig.

Yes, standing on the front bumper and looking down at the pump; mark on pump moved towards the drivers side is advancing pump timing.
Most agree that in a stock engine with high miles, just a little bit of advance is okay; like a 1/16 of an inch past the mark.
A true diesel shop can accurately time your injection pump.
Just turning it blindly is dangerous.

 

[cucvrus]

Line on line always worked for me forever and today. I have truck with over 200K on them pushing snow. I am not sure how to tell the difference unless I have a brand new 6.2 CUCV to compare it to. Our 1/2 ton Silverado with a 4.3 has more power then the 6.2 in the M1009. But side by side they push snow about the same. The 4:56 gears in the CUCV truck make up for the lack of horse power. I have replaced all the injection pumps at some point and they all are about the same as far as power. All line on line timing. I did have shop check one already and they said just keep it there. These are stock set pumps and the trucks are all stock. Of course. Good Luck. Have a great day.

 

[jpg]

Well, I got it all reassembled. I've cranked it 3 times, at full throttle, without a sputter of ignition. My AntennaClimber Glowplug controller is acting weird. It usually flashes for about 14 seconds, then I start. Now it flashes only once... It does give me the green LED on the card edge, and the red LED shows glowplugs on. The voltmeter is at the bottom of the green, as it usually is when the glowplugs are on.

The batteries read 13.7V each before I crank, and 12.7V after 10 seconds of cranking. I let them re-charge between attempts.

I thought perhaps I'd missed re-connecting a ground somewhere, but I find nothing missing. I've been re-reading the TMs and web sites in between attempts. I'm not finding the problem...

 

[Bighorn]

Well, I got it all reassembled. I've cranked it 3 times, at full throttle, without a sputter of ignition. My AntennaClimber Glowplug controller is acting weird. It usually flashes for about 14 seconds, then I start. Now it flashes only once... It does give me the green LED on the card edge, and the red LED shows glowplugs on. The voltmeter is at the bottom of the green, as it usually is when the glowplugs are on.

The batteries read 13.7V each before I crank, and 12.7V after 10 seconds of cranking. I let them re-charge between attempts.

I thought perhaps I'd missed re-connecting a ground somewhere, but I find nothing missing. I've been re-reading the TMs and web sites in between attempts. I'm not finding the problem...

You did line up the timing marks exactly right?
Dr. Lee at the diesel page had a no start due to improperly lined up marks or lined up with something that wasn't a mark.
Clean it off real good and check, they are very faint lines.

Make sure you have fuel going into and out of you lift pump.
Is the filter full?

Unless you are in a very cold place you should be getting somethin cranking it that long.
Don't burn up your starter, try this;

Go turn the key on but don't crank.
Remove the wire on top of the fuel bowl and momentariy touch it back to the terminal.
You should hear a click inside the fuel bowl.
That is your fuel shut off solenoid working.
No click.. no fuel.. no start.

If you hear a click;
Maybe you need to prime the pump.
I didn't need to do this because my pump came primed from Oregon Fuel Injection.
But I was ready and prepared to crack the nuts loose on the fuel injectors (not the pump) and crank it over with the glow plugs removed to allow faster cranking, until fuel comes out of the connections.
Reattach them.
Crank it over again with glow plugs removed.
Look for white vapor.
It will be white vapor (smoke) coming out of the glow plug holes.
No white vapor, no start.
If you have white vapor it must start after you replace the glow plugs or your timing is way off and check those marks again.
Like CUCVRUS said; line them up exactly.
Have you tried this?

 

[jpg]

Yes. I have 12V at the pink IP wire with the key on. I hear the relay inside the IP operate when I connect the pink wire while it has 12V. Before I tightened the injector lines to the injectors, I got fuel mist when I cranked.

I have an electric lift pump in line with the mechanical one, so I'm sure I'm getting fuel to the IP.

I tried to set up the new pump like the old one. It's a little retarded, below. I'll advance it tomorrow. It's too late to crank now -- neighbors.

Thanks!

 

[Bighorn]

Yes. I have 12V at the pink IP wire with the key on. I hear the relay inside the IP operate when I connect the pink wire while it has 12V. Before I tightened the injector lines to the injectors, I got fuel mist when I cranked.

I have an electric lift pump in line with the mechanical one, so I'm sure I'm getting fuel to the IP.


I tried to set up the new pump like the old one. It's a little retarded, below. I'll advance it tomorrow. It's too late to crank now -- neighbors.
View attachment 699875
Thanks!

Yea, that pump is drastically retarded.
Could be your piston is already on the downstroke before fuel gets injected.
I have a book of Dr. Lee Swangers stuff from the Diesel Page.
In it, he had set up an IP just like that and couldn't get it to start until he lined the marks up.

I know what you mean about neighbors!
I once rebuilt my f-head 134 in an M38A1.
New rings, valve job etc.
Was so into what I was doing and excited to get her running I didn't realize it had suddenly become 3am when I began breaking in the rings.
At some point I noticed the time and all the lights on in the neighborhood and the not so happy looking glances from front porches.

Then there was the time I bough a Suzuki motorcycle from a garage sale and discovered the hard way the throttle slides were stuck in the open position.
Fact: A two stroke motorcycle CAN and WILL run at 9,000 rpm without a spark plug wire.
Yes, my neighbors were glad to see me move away.

 

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Pump marks aligned. Now debugging a fuel supply problem... I bet the IP will work better when it gets fuel.

 

[Kaiser67M715]

Quick and dirty-take old fuel cap, jb-weld an air fitting on and pressurize fuel tank (NO More then 5psi) that will show ANY leaks quick.

Also if you didn't do a timing chain, a slight bit ahead of mark may be wise. The old guy at the Chevy dealer tells me to time by the advance lever 9nly on new pumps-rebuilt the advance bore may be worn and gives improper timing. The best timing is done by a lumosity probe, but it's such a range GM gives, he always does it by the ear and a road drive, he says 5 degrees can be the difference of noticeable power loss and terrible fuel economy. Every engine is differnt, try as you might, slight differences can make huge changes in engine power and economy.

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I have an electric pump between the metal fuel line under the intake manifold, and the fuel filter. It's the kind of pump that stops when it reaches 10PSI. When I disconnect the fuel filter outlet and turn that pump on, I have a steady stream of fuel coming out of the fuel filter toward the line in the center of the spider on the back of the IP. With all the fuel lines in place, when I turn on the electric pump, pushing fuel into the filter, the pump runs. Since it doesn't stop, the fuel must be going somewhere. I find no leaks, so I figured it must be circulating through the IP.

When I put 12V to the IP where the pink wire connects, I hear the relay close inside.

I thought perhaps the fuel is going through the IP drainback hose, so I disconnected the forward end of the drainback hose and turned on the pump. I ran the electric pump and no fuel appeared. I put 12V to the connector for the pink wire. Still no fuel from the drainback hose. It's like I have a blockage between the filter and the IP, but I can find no problems. Nor can I find where the fuel is going after it's pumped into the filter. There's no puddle under the truck. The fuel lines are all dry. When I crank for 10 seconds with the pedal floored, I get no hint of ignition. No smoke, no nothing.

Could my vacuum advance be causing a problem? I moved it from the old pump to the new one, preserving its adjustment as best I could. I don't have a vacuum gauge so I couldn't follow the TM on adjusting it.

The truck has only 4K miles on it (DUVAC problems) so I doubt the timing chain is worn enough that I need to advance the pump.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[Bighorn]

I wonder if there is fuel in the bowl.
Unless there is a problem with your pump, it has to be that fuel shut off solenoid.
Maybe it is clicking but not doing opening.
One thing to be careful of if you take that bowl top off to inspect the solenoid, with that linkage off you have no way to stop the engine if you do get it started.
My guess is your fuel shutoff solenoid linkage is incorrectly installed or otherwise malfunctioning.
I have pictures of what it looks like inside but you can find those on the net too.
Is that pump under warranty?
Maybe contact the rebuilder before you open the bowl.
They put paint on the screws to show if it has been tampered with.
Sorry you are having such troubles.

 

[Kaiser67M715]

You could try making an IV, run a 2 liter soda bottle with a line running straight to injection pump (this bypasses everything pre injection pump) try to start it now, remove the glow plugs to make it easier on the starter, when you get mist out the glow holes your ready to fire up.

Edit: hang the bottle from hood above IP do gravity feed the pump.

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[cucvrus]

I never seen an electric pump and a manual pump in line. Are you sure you have the right manual pump? I can't imagine how an electric pump would push fuel past a manual pump. And if it did what is the point of both? I did cover the wrong pumps in the past. I wonder if it is that simple that you have the wrong lift pump. I would like to have done this job for you. I used to have guys show up here at 7 AM Saturday and change the injection pump and have them back on the road by 1 PM on a Saturday the same day. I charged $200. to do the work and whatever the cost of the pump. Take care.

 

[jpg]

I never seen an electric pump and a manual pump in line. Are you sure you have the right manual pump? I can't imagine how an electric pump would push fuel past a manual pump. And if it did what is the point of both? I did cover the wrong pumps in the past. I wonder if it is that simple that you have the wrong lift pump. I would like to have done this job for you. I used to have guys show up here at 7 AM Saturday and change the injection pump and have them back on the road by 1 PM on a Saturday the same day. I charged $200. to do the work and whatever the cost of the pump. Take care.

The mechanical pump is the one that came with the truck. I bought a replacement, but I didn't want to change too many things at once, so I haven't installed it yet. I put the electric pump in line with the mechanical one so I could get the air out of the fuel system before cranking the engine. I also wanted to eliminate the mechanical pump as a possible cause of my problems. I probably will remove the electric one once the truck is running right again. I get a good flow out of the fuel filter with just the electric pump.

If I could have driven it to you, I would have. I had it towed to my driveway a couple of days after the "best diesel mechanic in the area" said there was nothing wrong with it.

The pump is a Walbro FRB-5, 12V 10PSI 45GPH. With the engine off, it produces 0.5GPM coming out of the filter.
http://www.walbro.com/fr-series-fuel-pumps/frb-5-reciprocating-fuel-pump/

At this point, I'm ready to try a different IP. Antennaclimber sent me his spare. I'm really hoping someone out there has a better idea... At least I know what I'm doing a little more than I did before...

 

[Bighorn]

Yea, I would try a different pump too.
Don't take this the wrong way;
After installing my rebuilt injector pump, without bleeding air or anything, the motor started after the second session of cranking.
Not trying to rub it in, just saying that if you even bleed the air out, that thing should run almost instantly.
It sounds like there is something way wrong with that ip pump.
Can you send it back to whoever built it and at least get them to fix it,
or has that ship sailed?

On the other hand, if you ain't gonna get your money back anyways, I would sure pop the top of that ip pump and check the fuel shut off solenoid and linkage.
There is no reason that pump shouldn't work if fuel is there unless your timing chain is broken and the pump isn't spinning.

It has fuel up to the pump.
The solenoid is energized.
The pump is timed correctly.
But no fuel is getting injected.

Either there is not enough pressure being developed by the ip pump to pop the injectors or that **** shut off solenoid is not allowing fuel to flow into the ip pump.

But you said earlier that you had fuel mist coming out the glow plug holes?
If that is the case the timing is still way off somehow or that pump is screwed up inside.

Well at least you have Antenna Climber's spare to try out.
Then if it starts and runs will tell us a lot.

 

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AntennaClimber responded from his Rt66 Convoy, and told me to check my pico fuse and the temp sensor behind the intake manifold on the driver's side. The pico fuse was blown, so I swapped in my spare GlowPlug Controller and shipped the blown one back to AntennaClimber for TLC. I found a point where the temp sensor lead had been crushed, so I repaired that. Now the GlowPlug Controller works normally.

What's a Pico Fuse? I had to google it. It's the vertically-oriented solid green component on the left edge of the card.