Snapped a Bear Claw on a 5 ton need some direction ...Drivers side 813 A1

[CARNSEQ]

We just traded this truck in and the dust boot was torn on the front drivers side ,,, but after we got into it found out the drivers side front axle was snapped off and had been for awhile .. we had to remove the entire front end clean the inter splines and did a full tear down ,, Left the ring and pinion together ,,, Bought a new / used axle from red barn customs ,, installed new seals and cleaned and repacked everything .... went together nicely ,, ran it a couple miles,,,, sat for a few weeks till I was able to get back to it and again were new to this truck .. I understand that you have 4x4 in only low range .. so I had it in the parking lot placed it in low range creeper gear ... moved about 20 feet and felt it lock ... it would only steer to the right , worked it back into the shop bay and the BEAR/CLAW snapped in half one ball was wedged under the bell ... destroyed the inter seal and trashed a new axle ... Any ideas ? I will call Luke at red barn tomorrow but cant figure out what happened ,,, shy of a bad joint ... any direction will be appreciated thanks/// JL

 

[CARNSEQ]

 

[Squirt-Truck]

You have 6x6 as needed always in the 813. Has nothing to do with the range and if the selector is working properly the gear selection does not matter.
This sounds like you have a frozen sprague, and the front axle is trying to pull all the time. This will eat tires and break things.
HAve you checked the transfer case operation?

 

[CARNSEQ]

Again Im new to this and no I have not ,, the lever moved and it dropped into low range ... After I installed the new Axle we took it down the road about 2 miles and it ran Great ,,, The axle broke only after I tried to engage 4x4 and low range ? How and what do I check on the transfer case ? Now someone installed 48" tall tires on this so the tires are NOT stock if that makes a difference

 

[Floridianson]

Myself I would switch away from the Timken ball type axle and go to the newer style u joint.

 

[gimpyrobb]

1600s are 53 inch tall not 48.

I'd pull the spline caps off and go for a drive once you get it fixed. If the axle doesn't break, I'd look into whats wrong with the transfercase.

 

[Nomadic]

Bad ass looking truck. Love those tires.

 

[red]

You've got some mixed up info on the truck.

The transfercase in the m809 series is a full time 6x6 on demand (in your case being a bobber 4x4), model is a T138. This is in both high and low range. From the factory there is no switch to disengage that unless a modification has been done.

16x20"s are 53" tall. 14x20"s are 49" tall. Not an issue with the drivetrain when being used whether gently or as a rough use vehicle.

As for a factory setup to cause that problem, could be that the sprag in the tcase is stuck in the forward position and (assuming the axle shaft broke when backing up) bound up when trying to drive in reverse, leading to the weakest link breaking.

If your tcase has been modified to be part time front wheel power, that is done by interrupting the air supply to the transfercase with a switch. If that has been done and plumbed incorrectly, could cause the same problem. As in plumbing in the transfercase backwards to where the reverse sprag engages when driving forward.

 

[CARNSEQ]

When we first got the truck the first axle was Snapped ,,, Truck ran nice but I heard the clicking which caused us to tear into it .. We installed the new bear claw , boots seals ect from Red Barn Customs in Mi Drove the truck in high range and 56 MPH drove with one hand as smooth as could be .... But I had NOT dropped it into low range ... Sat was the first time we flipped the lever .. Air came on in forward granny and rev ... You could hear it ... I think you may be right about the backing up because I think thats when it snapped .. I only pulled about 20' forward and 20' back when it happened..
Ive had grease under my fingernails for 30 + years ..Obviously I still learn every day .. IF the Sprag is stuck and how do I determine that ? how would it break the axle backing up ?

 

[gimpyrobb]

There is a tad more to it. The sprage kicks in when it senses the rear axles slipping. It has a forward clutch and a reverse. It is bad if your in a forward gear and drift backward or if your in reverse and drift forward.

Now that being said, your transmission controls weather its in forward or reverse. Whenever you shift from forward to reverse(or vise-versa) you shoud hear air solenoids. Those are on the side of the transmission. Your going to need to make sure those are plumbed correctly AND that they both work.

Next I would look at the Tcase. make sure the plunger(s?) are working in and out.

 

[CARNSEQ]

Great .. Luke at Red Barn just shipped a new style axle and Inter seal and retainer ( trashed that ) so I will have all the parts by wed ... The air Solenoids are activating however they may not be plumbed correctly ( this truck was a 6x6 that someone cut and made a 4x4 so its quite possible they had these lines off ..)

Which line should activate for which direction ?

My Guess is that this truck has not had 4x4 for some time the first axle I took out had been broken for so long it was actually starting to round off from bouncing against the broken end .. Had to remove the Ring and P assembly and diamond dress the splines just to get the new axle to slide freely ...

 

[armytruck63]

Make sure you go from reverse to first gear - do not skip first gear, even in low range.

 

[Squirt-Truck]

To check transfer operation.
Truck off and secure with rear tires chocked.
Full air in system.
Transfer in gear. range does not matter.
Transmission in first gear
Jack up either front wheel, be CAREFUL tire may try to spin.
Front tire should be able to be turned forward by hand.
Front tire should NOT be able to be turned backwards.
Repeat with transmission in reverse, except, tire will turn backwards and not forward.
Failure to move freely indicates a stuck sprague, and that is bad, if operates backward the lines have been crossed, swap and repeat.

Like Gimp said, rolling backwards in a forward gear, or the opposite, is a recipe for a damaged sprague unit or at least a stuck one.

Let us know.

 

[Tinwoodsman]

Sorry for the problems you are experiencing but to be clear, this is a Bear Claw.

 

[red]

Great .. Luke at Red Barn just shipped a new style axle and Inter seal and retainer ( trashed that ) so I will have all the parts by wed ... The air Solenoids are activating however they may not be plumbed correctly ( this truck was a 6x6 that someone cut and made a 4x4 so its quite possible they had these lines off ..)

Which line should activate for which direction ?

My Guess is that this truck has not had 4x4 for some time the first axle I took out had been broken for so long it was actually starting to round off from bouncing against the broken end .. Had to remove the Ring and P assembly and diamond dress the splines just to get the new axle to slide freely ...

Post #218 goes over the transmission/tcase air plumbing for forward movement. https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?132200-quot-Rescued-quot-M816-Wrecker/page22

 

[gimpyrobb]

Make sure you go from reverse to first gear - do not skip first gear, even in low range.

I'm pretty sure that has been dispelled.

Its been too long since I've driven mine to say for sure though.

 

[CARNSEQ]

Your right about the Bear Claw ,, We have a Dunkin Donuts in our parking lot LOL..... Parts will be here tomorrow so I hope to follow up with you guys then ,, Im going to jack up all 4 and have it sitting in the shop before I test ... Sure appreciate all your help .. Hope to make this my Daily Driver .. Might have a fight though My Daughter might try and take it first !

 

[CARNSEQ]

Master Chief we finally had time to get the new second axle in and back together ... We tested it exactly as you explained and just as you stated with the system full of air trans in 1st gear tire spins freely forward ..... Trans in REV tire spins freely in backwards and not forward .. My question is when the trans is in neutral should the tire spin but forward and backwards ,, ? After this truck snapped two driver side front axles I know that something is up either I am doing something wrong in the operation of we have another issue ... We removed the PLUG on the lower front left side of the transfer case ( driver side ) We can watch the gear move in and out freely when we operate the shifter from forward to rev ,,, the air valve is pushing and pulling it freely ... However it seems that what broke that axle was the front wheels were trying to turn backwards when the rear wheels were trying to drive forward .... Im to the point of jacking up all four and running it that way to make sue we are not missing something ...... What do I need to check now ? I dont want to test drive it and do damage like I just fixed .... It actually bent the Pivot hub and that took a bit of doing to realign it .. We did and wheel angles freely now .. JL

 

[Floridianson]

On mine as soon as I take it out of reverse gear and it hits neutral I hear the sprag come out of reverse sprag and go to forward sprag.

 

[CARNSEQ]

Im going to lift all 4 wheels off the ground and run it and see what happens I do not want to snap another axle