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so I think I want a tank

L1A1

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Maybe he won't notice if there is one missing :whistle:

Guy in Toronto has a Leopard Tank with a training turret. Had it up for sale last year. I believe he was asking $50k. Cool thing about the training turret is that it sits three people inside, plus a driver up front.

Not that ITAR would let it leave the country (if someone in the US wanted to buy it). But was cool non the less.
I remember seeing that add on ebay. It was only the second time that I'd seen a Leopard tank with the driver training turret on it. You're right it was a cool machine, indeed!
Matt
I had to google "ITAR" to see what it was :oops:.
 
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Stalwart

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Inside the USA? Short answer...No. Tanks don't come with titles and so can't be tagged for the road. I know there are lighter tracked MVs out there but they still don't meet DMV regs for on road operation...

Matt
Well Matt, please inform me where my Scorpion tank isn't road legal. Washington State DOT doesn't seem to agree with you. They were worried about that it might exceed bridge weight and tear up the roads. My 8 ton Scorpion does neither, it has all lights, horn and insurance. Surplussed military vehicles and foreign vehicles imported don't come with titles either, they come with paperwork that allows you to apply for title. Other than at airshow demonstrations, my Scopion is used exclusively on public roads. I've been stopped twice, once because of a neverous call from a civilian, and the other time for speeding. No tickets either time, the local police usually just wave . . .
 
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DieselBob

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my Scopion is used exclusively on public roads. I've been stopped twice, once because of a neverous call from a civilian, and the other time for speeding. No tickets either time, the local police usually just wave . . .
Now that's funny. I would like to have seen the look on the Leo's face when he first realised what you where speeding in...:-D
 

plym49

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Well Matt, please inform me where my Scorpion tank isn't road legal. Washington State DOT doesn't seem to agree with you. They were worried about that it might exceed bridge weight and tear up the roads. My 8 ton Scorpion does neither, it has all lights, horn and insurance. Surplussed military vehicles and foreign vehicles imported don't come with titles either, they come with paperwork that allows you to apply for title. Other than at airshow demonstrations, my Scopion is used exclusively on public roads. I've been stopped twice, once because of a neverous call from a civilian, and the other time for speeding. No tickets either time, the local police usually just wave . . .
I believe you mentioned a track operating cost of approximately $12/mile. Do the tracks wear disproportionately when turning, or do they also wear significantly during straight-ahead operation?
 

Capt Pat

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These guys are spot on, if you're looking for armor to play with, the Scorpion type vehicle is best. American armor is nice but heavy, expensive to maintain and driving it anywhere is not really fun. The permits will fry your brain, as the DOT folks don't really appreciate us. And the trucking costs unless you own your own "Dragon Wagon" or its equivalent also is a pain. Our "Group" works with an operational Sherman an everything about it is heavy. The tracks take a fearsom beating, and replacing them is all work. Even changing from side to side to get even wear is a two day job for five guys.
The feds don't even like demilled guns, we're having issues getting a form one permit for an old WWII 37mm anti-tank gun to make a saluting gun out of it for festivals, special occasions and funerals, (we've had a bunch of vets approach us about firing it at their funeral IF we get the approval. Currently we use a replica Civil War prarie howitzer they have not caught up with that yet) They seem to be afraid we'll try to take over the country with old armor or something.
That Sherman is a blast to work on and gets real attention where ever it goes, especially with a form one 76 mm gun that makes alot of noise with black powder rounds. But again the expense, liability and such is mind boggling. I'd be willing to bet the earlier smaller armor is the same. No, I'm sure you'd want the UK armor instead.
 

L1A1

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Inside the USA? Short answer...No. Tanks don't come with titles and so can't be tagged for the road. Most States forbid the driving of tracked vehicles on state maintained road ways. I did know a guy who used to drive his M4A3 Sherman tank in local parades. He'd drive it to the jump off point (1 or 2 miles) & go from there. It did have rubber block tracks which still tore up the asphalt in the summer. I know there are lighter tracked MVs out there but they still don't meet DMV regs for on road operation...

Matt
Well Matt, please inform me where my Scorpion tank isn't road legal. Washington State DOT doesn't seem to agree with you. They were worried about that it might exceed bridge weight and tear up the roads. My 8 ton Scorpion does neither, it has all lights, horn and insurance. Surplussed military vehicles and foreign vehicles imported don't come with titles either, they come with paperwork that allows you to apply for title. Other than at airshow demonstrations, my Scopion is used exclusively on public roads. I've been stopped twice, once because of a neverous call from a civilian, and the other time for speeding. No tickets either time, the local police usually just wave . . .
Think the high lighted & in red statement covers you comment about Wash. State DOT "Most" is not "All".

Does it have tags? Does it have a title?

No, but they come with "paperwork" to title. Did you go to WaDot and get a title for your scorpion? Would be curious to know. Dot regs vary from state to state (thought you understood that) and in some states if a vehicle is over 20 years old, it doesn't need a title (NY for example) in other states, if it runs on the road, it has to have a title (Va for example) Tracked stuff here in rual Va falls into a "gray area" meaning my friend could occationally take his M4A3 out for a spin to keep things up, but don't make a daily driver out of it. I'm pretty sure if LEOs wanted to ding him (or you) for driving a tracked AFV on public roads it wouldn't be hard for them to come up with something. In this hobby, we are all our brother's keeper and what one does bad or good reflects on all of us.

Unless you are active/reserve Military or national Guard, you too are also a civilian :roll:
Matt
 

B3.3T

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There are many states where tracked vehicles can be street legal. As for owning a real tank, as stated, the CVR(T)s are the only ones remotely practical for all the reasons previously mentioned. Certainly the easiest tracked armor to service. I know people who have gone the BATFE Form 1 route and re-manufactuered it live. Can be done.
 

B3.3T

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If you want to go the WWII route for tracked armor, the T16 Universal Carrier is the only real choice for price, size and performance. Certainly the "Scorpion" of its day. But like Scorpions, these are hard to find for sale.
 

waayfast

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Well Matt, please inform me where my Scorpion tank isn't road legal. Washington State DOT doesn't seem to agree with you. They were worried about that it might exceed bridge weight and tear up the roads. My 8 ton Scorpion does neither, it has all lights, horn and insurance. Surplussed military vehicles and foreign vehicles imported don't come with titles either, they come with paperwork that allows you to apply for title. Other than at airshow demonstrations, my Scopion is used exclusively on public roads. I've been stopped twice, once because of a neverous call from a civilian, and the other time for speeding. No tickets either time, the local police usually just wave . . .

LOL!!

Speeding in a tank. Please tell me you kept the citation, framed and hung it on your "man-cave" wall. Now THAT would be a conversation piece!!

I have seen the vid of you and the Scorpion at speed, very cool but I shudder to think of the outcome if you were to blow/throw at track at that high a speed.
Laundry 'ell !!--- how would you clean up the inside( provided you lived thru the ordeal).

To the OP--I'm sure Alex still has the Centurion for sale in Fruitland ID, But----------------------------------------??
Jim
 

Stalwart

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I stated in the next sentence there was no ticket. Frankly I didn't think I was speeding, I actually doubt it very much. I think it was his excuse to stop me. Then he didn't want to see ANY paperwork including my license. It was the same cop who stopped on the road by my house and saw my wife's little Ferret. He just asked what the cool little vehicle was. I asked him if he wanted to come take a look.

You CAN throw a track at any time if they are in poor condition or not tensioned correctly. I check tension before every use and I start with new track. Road use is very gentle, off-road use can be much more damaging. When doing demonstrations at speed the general public is at quite a distance (hundreds of feet).

There is an account of 2 CVR(T) going cross country in England, they were going straight for several miles when one attempted a turn and the machine wouldn't comply. After stopping the vehicle they found a track missing. After the other vehicle back tracked their route the track was found 1.5-2 miles away.

Regarding the licensing on them, I don't bother. I'm in a high tax state with a high local tax for bus and light rail. Rather than spend MANY hundreds of dollars for a few short trips, I use a $30.00 3 day trip permit.

Track wear going straight is minimal, hard turns are expensive. From the miles I got out of my first set of track I derived the cost per mile. That included the cost of track in England and shipping here divided by the miles they lasted until they were at risk of marking the road.
 

Deuce007

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Saw a small British tank a while back, don't recall model, that was 8' wide, weight was about 7 tons. That would be more my style I believe. I am a class 2 manufacture, know about NFA stuff, but have never got in to destructive devices, so am unfamiliar with having a live gun on the tank.
If you just want a small little tank you could get a British Bren-Gun carrier. It is quite small and is usually under $20k but it doesn't have a cannon.
 
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oifvet

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A word to the wise - if you are tall, or a little wider than you were when you were 18, you're in for a heap of problems. Just about anything armored is designed for skinny little 18 year-olds. Once you have a few years and a few pounds on you, they get real crowded real fast...
These are true words of wisdom. I have always been an admirer of tanks. I wanted to get into "Armor" when I entered my first branch of the military. I evn inquired about it when I entered my second. Another wise individual told me this, "Everything about a tank is heavy, hard and hurts." "Do what you want, but remember, it's a younger man's game."

I believed him and went the "Motor Transport" route (literally).

I still love the tanks and appreciate the desire to own one. Perhaps if you do end up getting one, and transportation and storage are difficult, maybe you could "store" it at a local VFW, American Legion, AMVets or similar venue with your name and so-forth included on a plaque.

Good luck on this adventure to anyone that pursues it!
 

Stalwart

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Think the high lighted & in red statement covers you comment about Wash. State DOT "Most" is not "All".

Does it have tags? Does it have a title?

In this hobby, we are all our brother's keeper and what one does bad or good reflects on all of us.

Unless you are active/reserve Military or national Guard, you too are also a civilian :roll:
:roll::roll: Well Skippy, you can think of yourself as my keeper. But, you ain't my brother and you know where to put your opinions concerning your IMAGINED views on my behavior, where you have ABSOLUTELY no knowledge whatsoever.

Refering to "civilians", I was refering to non uniformed persons, I was contrasting that to uniformed persons, AKA other LEO's. :roll: :evil:
 

1 Patriot-of-many

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Stalwart, what do you know about the FV432/436 APC's? Looks like I could get one shipped to my house for sub 20K, are these a good "starter" piece of Armor?
 

Stalwart

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The main downside to the 432 is the weight. Would you have the room to play with it at home? If not, do you have the resources to move 30,000 lb vehicle? I wouldn't be interested in a B81 powered gasoline gulping monster, I'd opt for the RR K60 multifuel engine. They have the same general 6 speed Allison automatic that came in the Ford 8x8 M656/XM757/XM791 series trucks. For better access the engine and transmission is removed as a pack, it allows easier maintenance.

I'd certainly consider one if I wanted an APC. The problem is I have limited space and my F450/trailer is too darn small to carry all that weight. Personally, I'd rather opt for the FV103 Spartan . . . lighter, faster and smaller.
 
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1 Patriot-of-many

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The main downside to the 432 is the weight. Would you have the room to play with it at home? If not, do you have the resources to move 30,000 lb vehicle? I wouldn't be interested in a B81 powered gasoline gulping monster, I'd opt for the RR K60 multifuel engine. They have the same general 6 speed Allison automatic that came in the Ford 8x8 M656/XM757/XM791 series trucks. For better access the engine and transmission is removed as a pack, it allows easier maintenance.

I'd certainly consider one if I wanted an APC. The problem is I have limited space and my F450/trailer is too darn small to carry all that weight. Personally, I'd rather opt for the FV103 Spartan . . . lighter, faster and smaller.
I have 5 acres and no zoning crap to put up with. They're that heavy huh? Why is your rig so light?

Okay I'll have to look into the Spartan then, are they as available as these?
I want Armour, just don't want to spend 60K at this moment in time. LOVE YOUR ARMOUR BTW. That's just awesome. LOL getting pulled over on the road!
 

m1010plowboy

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I want a tank

I thought everyone wanted a tank. There's a couple of nutballs I drink tea with that have explored some options to the tank idea. After seeing Ripsaw, the idea of a tracked machine with a big block Chevy seemed plausible. A scaled replica is the latest brainstorm on the table. One of the boys is minutes away from completing a Bren Gun carrier and the 'purist' idea of saving a piece of history to share with the future still drives the desire to invest in the green hobby.

I like tracks so I bought a Terex 70 skidsteer and a track hoe where I still get to run tracks and make money at the same time. The novelty wears out fast when each track costs $4000.00 to replace. I can't even imagine what costs you face if you break a part on a Sherman.

I'm subscribed so I can learn so good luck and here's a couple of fun tank links i've found in our research.

Tank options:-D

Mind-Melting Tracked VW Bus

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_iup2jXQqI[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISQa-Ok6FdM[/media]
 

L1A1

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:roll::roll: Well Skippy, you can think of yourself as my keeper. But, you ain't my brother and you know where to put your opinions concerning your IMAGINED views on my behavior, where you have ABSOLUTELY no knowledge whatsoever.
My Stuart did I step on your toes? Oh, well :roll: . No I don't think of you as a brother but rather as a giant smooth muscle. As for your behavior, I don't have to imagine anything, all I have to do is read through all of your posts to get an idea as to what kind of person you are and why bother? What you've posted on this thread is proof enough that you are the aformentioned mucle posted above. Don't bother replying as I've unsubscribed to this thread. no reason to take it off track for the OP.....

Refering to "civilians", I was refering to non uniformed persons, I was contrasting that to uniformed persons, AKA other LEO's. :roll: :evil:

Oh so you're in Law enforcement? that would explain why no ticket was issued:rolleyes:

Matt
 
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