Soft (Very) Soft Brakes

[DeuceIsLoose]

Good Evening Gents,

I just got back from Camp Beauregard checking out a Deuce I won prior to recovery later this week or next. Everything is great on it--it started right up.

Except... the brakes. It was wedged in between two other deuces, so I wasn't able to test them moving, but when I pressed on the brake pedal it went all the way to the floor with slight resistance. The air tanks were full. I pumped it a few times and it just kept going to the floor.

Anybody have any ideas? I wasn't able to check the fluid--I still haven't figured out how to do that on the old Deuces. I pulled up the trap door and looked at the master cylinder--no leaks--but I don't know how to check the fluid. All the other fluids are good on it so I imagine they would have topped off the brake fluid too. Anybody have any other ideas?

Thanks.

Donnie

P.S. Anybody bidding on trucks out of Beauregard beware. Some are in great shape and others are missing significant pieces.

 

[papercu]

That will happen with DOT 5 sometimes. To check the MC you will need to remove the line going to the cap then remove the cap. Be sure it is clean before removing any dirt falling in is bad news. If you have to add fluid DO NOT shake the can/bottle and pour very slow, it is hard to remove any air. Wayne

 

[clinto]

Take your pressure bleeder with you and at least 2 gallons of DOT5 (BFS). Do a search for bleeder and read the threads. With an inexpensive bleeder, you can bleed the entire truck in 20 minutes.

READ YOUR OPERATOR'S MANUAL BEFORE YOU OPERATE THAT VEHICLE!!!!!!! The operator's manual will cover all facets of vehicular operation. Read it cover to cover.

There was a fella here on the site who didn't have his brakes in working order and managed to crash into a building at Ft. Jackson. Now, vehicles have to be towed off base because of that one incident. Don't screw things up for others.

 

[DeuceIsLoose]

Thanks Clinto--any suggestions on where I could get one of those bleeders?

 

[clinto]

Thanks Clinto--any suggestions on where I could get one of those bleeders?

Yes-the threads with bleeders are here. One thread has a link where you can purchase one, the other thread shows how you can make one from a pesticide sprayer from Home Cheapo or Blowes.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/30937-brake-pressure-bleeder.html

Within that thread (link above) there is a link to the homemade bleeder that our own Recovry4x4 built. They also work very well.

Let's see some pics of your truck! Welcome to the site!

 

[drgreg]

Brakebleeder It's really a site.

 

[Warthog]

Welcome to SS. Your madness is just begining.

I built my own bleeder for under $20. It makes the job soooo easy.

Out of the 10 trucks I have picked up, 9 have had to have the brakes bled.

8 of the 9 only had to have the Air Pack bled.

You always want to start your brake bleeding by bleeding the Air pack first, and if needed the right most rear, left most rear, right forward rear, left forward read, right front and finally the left front.

This assumes that the truck only has the single cylinder Master Cylinder. The late '80s truck have dual cyclinder M/Cs and dual Air Packs.

All of this is covered in the Operations Manuals.

As it has been said before, NEVER, NEVER, drive the truck without checking to see if your brakes are fuctioning properly.

 

[DeuceIsLoose]

Clinto & Warthog,

Thanks for all the advice--I really appreciate it. I just ordered one of those pressure bleeders. All I've got right now are the GL pictures. As soon as I get it home, I'll throw some pics up.

Thanks again--you guys make this site great.

Donnie

 

[DeuceIsLoose]

Warthog,

By the way is bleeding the air pack any different than the brakes on the wheels? Should I expect to see fluid or air?

Thanks again.

Donnie

 

[nk14zp]

fluid

 

[Warthog]

The bleeder valve for the Air Pak is on the top side. It is #10 in this parts diagram. Some times it will be full of dirt and mud. Remove it and clean it out.

Warthog

 

[Warthog]

Warthog,

By the way is bleeding the air pack any different than the brakes on the wheels? Should I expect to see fluid or air?

Thanks again.

Donnie

The Air Pak is just like a wheel cylinder, you should see fluid without air bubbles.

Here is the instructions for manually bleeding the Air Pak. It is from the manual for dual Air Paks but applies to all.

 

[DeuceIsLoose]

Thanks for the pics and details Warthog.

I pulled out the -20 manual and looked at the procedure for bleeding the brakes. My MC doesn't have that "vent line" going back into the top of the cylinder--is that optional or does my Deuce have a major problem?

Also, the manual states it's necessary to have a "transparent container" connected to the bleeders filled half full of brake fluid and to keep the "flexible snug-fitting hose" below the brake fluid level in that container. Is that mandatory--why can't you just dump the brake fluid? Why does the bottle need to be half full with fluid? Does the tube have to be under the level of the brake fluid?

It's para 8-12 of TM 9-2320-361-20 in case anybody is looking.

Thanks for all the help, I know that's a lot of questions--you guys are all lifesavers.

Donnie

 

[Warthog]

Just use a water bottle for the container. Take a coat hanger to make a hook. The half full in not necessary. Just enough to cover the hose. The reason for the bottle is so you can see any air bubbles in the fluid. They may be very small. If you are manualy bleeding when the pedal is pumped, air can re-enter the system if the hose is not in the fluid.

Its not a good idea to dump brake fluid on the ground or on your paint.

The trucks orginally came with the vent line installed. Over the years some of them have been removed because they are a PITA to remove and reinstall. Only really needed if you are fording water.

 

[KaiserM109]

Ditto on all the bleeding info; ONE MORE THING: Drain the air tanks at least once before starting out. The 109 in my avatar had soft brakes, 1/2 pedal, at Ft. Riley when I picked it up but I didn't know what to do. Fifty miles later they completely failed in heavy traffic. It was a pucker factor 5 getting it stopped without hitting anything.

Water had gotten into the valves and caused a sudden failure. I got 1/2 pint of H2O out of 1 tank. These trucks have sat around for as long as 18 months without any maintenance and can have collected significant water.

Good luck and enjoy!!

 

[DeuceIsLoose]

Warthog and Kaiser,

Got it. Thanks for all the bleeding info. I drained the air tanks when I was up there last weekend. I'll bleed the system this week and pick it up on Wednesday.

Thanks again--I couldn't do it without you. Wish me luck.

Take care and I'll post some picks when get it home.

Donnie

 

[DeuceIsLoose]

Warthog & Kaiser,

Thanks again--I went up there yesterday and bled the brakes with the pressure bleeder and following all of your advice. She's now got just fine brakes.

Now I just have to see if I can return the extra gallon of DOT5 I got from NAPA--that stuff costs a dollar an ounce!

Take care and have a great day.

Donnie