Softer Springs

[cjd]

I've searched and read through all the spring threads I can find. Lots of good info, but little "follow on" reports of how the trucks ride. Right now I figure our M1123 has had at least 3k pounds of gear removed, so the springs are like bricks. Here is my goal, and I would appreciate anyone who has experience that can help me get to it.

First, I grew up going to Colorado, and running the trails up and around Ouray and Silverton. We used jeeps, and honestly, every time I ran a day of trails, I felt like I needed kidney transplants. Jeeps are awesome getting you there...but you are like tenderized steak when you do! Then we bought a Range Rover. OMG! If anyone has run trails with a RR, you know the difference a soft suspension can make. The RR has 14" travel, so it can afford to use a very soft suspension, and allow the wheel travel to keep the tires on the ground. A day on the trails in a RR and you are ready for more.

So, back to the M1123. This truck has enough wheel travel to put the RR to shame. There is no need for solid rock springs. I would like to drop the rates...a LOT!! Most of the springs I find in the forum are advertising 30% less rate. They all advertise this 30% less rate as though it is a magical fix. Honestly, 30% less rate only accounts for the weight removed in the demil. That takes it from "solid" suspension to "dump truck" rates. I want 1965 Fleetwood spring rates.

In fact, I think the optimum for my use would be springs that would bottom frequently, with the stock ride height, and then stiffen it up with air shocks when needed. I want to glide down the road in my living room couch. The HMMWV weighs very close to what a '65 Cadi weighed, so I know it's possible.

So, any insight into this goal would be really appreciated.

 

[diesel_dave]

I've searched and read through all the spring threads I can find. Lots of good info, but little "follow on" reports of how the trucks ride. Right now I figure our M1123 has had at least 3k pounds of gear removed, so the springs are like bricks. Here is my goal, and I would appreciate anyone who has experience that can help me get to it.

First, I grew up going to Colorado, and running the trails up and around Ouray and Silverton. We used jeeps, and honestly, every time I ran a day of trails, I felt like I needed kidney transplants. Jeeps are awesome getting you there...but you are like tenderized steak when you do! Then we bought a Range Rover. OMG! If anyone has run trails with a RR, you know the difference a soft suspension can make. The RR has 14" travel, so it can afford to use a very soft suspension, and allow the wheel travel to keep the tires on the ground. A day on the trails in a RR and you are ready for more.

So, back to the M1123. This truck has enough wheel travel to put the RR to shame. There is no need for solid rock springs. I would like to drop the rates...a LOT!! Most of the springs I find in the forum are advertising 30% less rate. They all advertise this 30% less rate as though it is a magical fix. Honestly, 30% less rate only accounts for the weight removed in the demil. That takes it from "solid" suspension to "dump truck" rates. I want 1965 Fleetwood spring rates.

In fact, I think the optimum for my use would be springs that would bottom frequently, with the stock ride height, and then stiffen it up with air shocks when needed. I want to glide down the road in my living room couch. The HMMWV weighs very close to what a '65 Cadi weighed, so I know it's possible.

So, any insight into this goal would be really appreciated.

I also would like this and I hope an aftermarket manufacturer catches on and makes much softer springs. Doubtful it will happen though because there just aren't a lot of these out in the public.

 

[Maxjeep1]

If you search there is a good thread about Nissan Armada springs and it has some good information
Search Armada in threads. It came right up

 

[TOBASH]

It’s not just springs… you need to factor in the shocks.

Consider CEPEK adjustable shocks

 

[MattNC]

Look up Michael E Hoffman at American Humvee near Chicago. He’s on Facebook.

I met him over email and in person and he is a stand up guy who helped me a lot with setup questions. He offers aftermarket springs, I haven’t used them myself but a number of people I’ve met have and like them a lot for the heavy variant trucks.

 

[Action]

Buy a range rover?

 

[TOBASH]

Buy a range rover?

Does a skirt come with that LandRover and sensitive kidneys???

Man up and learn to piss blood.

Then buy CEPEK adjustable shocks

 

[cjd]

Thanks for the leads...and funny for you other guys! I have a RR, and my wife is disabled with back issues. Like I said, if you have ever run a RR off road, you know it leaves all but the most highly modified Jeeps in the dust. You can run a trail in half the time...it's just a better philosophy to have soft springs with more travel. In other words...you will be looking up my skirt from behind while you are stopping to piss blood LOL!

I'll let you guys know what Michael says...

 

[juanprado]

Do the m1123 use the same spring as the plain ole m998?

Maybe that could be the solution?

 

[TOBASH]

RR vs Jeep is a long ways away from RR vs HMMWV.

HMMWV’s long wheel base and wide wheel base and roughly 6-1 gear ratio with huge wheel travel and 37” tires is amazing.

 

[Mogman]

That's one thing I like about my 2 M998s they ride pretty good.

 

[Coug]

Neither the jeep nor the Range Rover has anywhere near as much unsprung weight to deal with. 160lb wheel/tire assembly, plus the weight of the geared hubs. 250ish lbs per corner maybe? So 1000 lbs of unsprung weight.
Mo matter how good/soft the springs and shocks, it will never ride as good as the RR OR the Jeep. Just the nature of the beast.

Do the m1123 use the same spring as the plain ole m998?

Maybe that could be the solution?

That depends on which M998 you are comparing to. The M998A2 has the same suspension as the M1123. To be clear, the M1123 IS an M998A2 with a couple tweaks for the Marines.

Now, if you are talking about the M1123 that has had the Marine Armor Kit removed from it, you've probably still got the heavy springs that are meant for the M1113 series armored truck. If I recall correctly, they are rated at something like 6k lbs per inch compression (at least the front) compared to the M998A0 springs that were rated at 1k lbs

Yes, you can put the springs from other variants in. The M998A2 had a set of variable rate springs that are night and day difference compared to the MAK springs.

I've had my M1123 up at 9500 lbs, and that definitely smooths out the ride for the rear springs (MAK springs single rate)

 

[juanprado]

I was thinking plain ole m998 . Mine rides very comfortable but we do not have rocks or hills for that matter in the southern part of the banana republic for me to get crazy with.
I have a winch on the front and a Tire carrier in the back and i do I feel some of the weight is leveled out.

 

[Mogman]

This M998 A0 (1992) weighs in at 7200lb and rides very well, but as Coug said they are never going to ride "great".
The worst vehicle I ever had was an 800 series Scout, literally rode like a brick on a skateboard.
The best riding capable off road vehicle was a Unimog, of course they go by a completely different mindset than anything made in the US.

 

[Coug]

I was thinking plain ole m998 . Mine rides very comfortable but we do not have rocks or hills for that matter in the southern part of the banana republic for me to get crazy with.
I have a winch on the front and a Tire carrier in the back and i do I feel some of the weight is leveled out.

For "plain ole M998" you might need to replace your rear spring perches, as some are stamped/welded and some are cast iron. They use different length springs.
I believe the earlier trucks used the stamped/welded ones, and the springs were similar size front and rear, where the cast perches require a spring several inches longer to work.

Also to note: the M1123 is about 700 lbs heavier to start with than the original M998 was, so you might end up with springs that are too soft if you go that route. You'll also lower your max gross weight to about 7700 lbs.
For comparison, my M1123 with spare tire, 2 man soft top, red dot aircon, and a couple minor things, weighs in at 7k lbs. Empty/dry is supposed to be around 5900 for the A2 trucks, and 5200 for the A0 trucks. Keep in mind this is a bare truck.

 

[Glider]

Armada spring, cepek adjustable shocks, remove runflats and balance.

Do the math on spring rate/ride height/gvwr. Don't forget an alignment. I think the Armada springs are long enough for either perch. They do require cutting on the welded perches.

I have done all except cepek shocks. The ride is better but shocks are needed for a squishy ride. I'm not really sure why I haven't done yet.

 

[Sigi]

I'll be following this thread as I'm in the same boat. M1123 with armor removed. The springs are massive, I'd guess 1 inch diameter. Ride is punishing on anything but smooth pavement. Would the H1 springs fit the A2/1123?

 

[cjd]

I took mine out just to get it some exercise (still waiting for the SF97 in 4th month). If I drive at 20mph over our grocery store speed humps I get air, LOL. Haven't had time to get into the spring issue, but will at some point.

 

[Glider]

Postman delivered a set of Cepek adjustable shocks this past Friday! Now only if i had the time to install.

 

[tomelroy]

i read somewhere old "Stormin Normin" drove around in a RR over a HMMWV back in the day.... My first car ever was a 1990 RR. Just picked up another. I would take a RRC, a D1 or Defender over almost anything including a side by side for a MTN trail/ hunting rig. Love my HMMWV's but prefer them on the smooth paved back roads. Best off road riding HMMWV I ever had was a 93 that had no updates to the suspension and had the early style rims and tires. Softer springs and tires make a huge difference. I even prefer a stock d1 over d1's with beefed up suspension for off roading.