Solenoid Assistance for M1009

[tommyd]

Hello,
I believe I have a solenoid issue. Truck ran fine yesterday. Went to start this am and no cranking or clicking whatsoever, but had power on the cluster ie gen lights. The one I took off the truck is a 9F3099. It's apparently from Caterpiller. Went down to NAPA and they gave me a ST88. Both are 24V. Is it safe to hook it up and try?

 

[tommyd]

Okay, have smoke now and even I can figure out that is not good. It is coming from the I think the GP module???. Sits on the fire wall directly behind the engine. Whatever it is, thats were the smoke is coming from. Trying to go through the TM's but having a difficult time loading them. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks in advance.

Semper fi
Tommy

 

[porkysplace]

You might want to post some pictures to identify what the parts are

 

[NDT]

The component on the firewall behind the engine is the voltage dropping resistor bank. It is connected in series with all of your glow plugs. 24 volts flows through it when the glow plug solenoid clicks on. Smoke from it means it got oily.

 

[tommyd]

Thanks. Yes, smoke is emitting from the resistor bank. The high temp light did come on yesterday for a while while working her hard. Stopped and let her cool, caped off fluid and she ran like normal up till this AM. This AM, went to start her and it will not turn over at all. Replaced the GP solenoid (9F 3099) and still no luck. Where should I start????

Semper Fi,
Tommy D

 

[NDT]

Won't crank? Batteries, cables or starter.

 

[tommyd]

Batteries, cables or starter. Nice tip. Batteries are good. Starter was replaced about 7 months ago. I will have to check the cables, but the smoke coming from the GP resistor is what is bothering me. I have a push button glow plug switch. Normally it makes a click when depressed. Now nothing. When I turn the key on, not start, I have power to the dash lights, but will not turn over. That is why I though it was a solenoid. Now have no clue.

 

[Mainsail]

Put a socket wrench on the crankshaft pulley and see if you can rotate the engine. Pull the GPs out and that’ll be easier.

 

[cpf240]

Verify that the GP solenoid is isolated ground, otherwise your GPs might be on all the time, which would get the resistor bank a bit warm.

 

[NDT]

It appears you believe that the GP solenoid is somehow interconnected with the starter motor. It is not. The relay that activates the starter motor is located behind the dash next to the ash tray.

 

[Keith_J]

If the starter motor doesn't spin, start at the symptom which is the motor. Check for voltage at the starter, big wire. Then with vehicle in park, chocked and locked, jumper from the small wire on the starter to main voltage. Run long jumper wire so you are not under the vehicle, sorry to be a safety fascist but judging from this thread, cannot assume anything.

if the starter spins, then the problem is further up stream. Read the TM and the wiring diagrams for further diagnosis. Remember, the CUCV is a 12/24 system with ignition switch at 12 but starter at 24, hence the solenoid relay under dash to perform the task of energizing the starter.

 

[Warthog]

For the OP. The glowplug system and the starter system are two totally separate systems. Cranking has noting to do with the glowplugs.

The solenoid that you replaced is to energize the glow plugs. The way it works is that the battery feeds one of the large terminals and the glowplugs are hooked up to the other large terminal. The two small terminals control the internal coil.

The pinkish wire is a 12v feed from the ignition switch. With the key on, the pink wire is hot with 12v. The small blue wire is a ground that is controlled by the GP controller card. When the system thinks the GPs need to be on, it will ground out the blue wire, thus energizing the internal coil, closing the contacts and allowing voltage to flow to the GPs.

Now on a stock system, the GP system uses 24v from both batteries. With fully functioning GPs, the 24v flows thru the resistor bank, heating it up (if not used in a while, it will smoke from leaves, oil, etc) and drops the voltage down to 12v.

The stock GP solenoid is a 12v coil controlling a 24v circuit.

The CAT solenoid was 24v and would not properly function. Might have worked a little. I can not find any specs on the ST88 but I think it is the wrong solenoid.

We need to know how you wired you manual switch. Many people do it incorrectly.

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

Where should I start????

Start by diagnosing the problem. Replacing parts is not diagnosing the problem. It's an expensive and frustrating way to waste a lot of time.


Until you know what should happen, you won't know what to test. Read the stickies to get an understanding of the circuits.

 

[tommyd]

Thanks to all that offered help! If you couldn't tell already, I was never in the motor pool group, but do like to fix as much as possible myself. I understand that they are two different systems, but I guessed jumped the gun a little. When I noticed smoke coming from the GP resistor and the only (visible) wire going to the solenoid, I thought it would be a good and easy fix. I have a push button style GP switch in her and I can hear it normally click...not so now. The 9F 3099 solenoid (CAT) was on it the day I got her around 24K miles. Now 86K and she was running good. Replaced the flex plate and IP and really not much else besides oils and tires. She's been a great vehicle up till yesterday. I am hoping I burned out a cable somewhere I did not see yet. I was hauling a good amount of dirt when it temp light went on, but let her cool and it was fine for two days, up till yesterday AM. I will try the recommendations as suggested and sure I'll be back. Thanks again!


Warthog,
The GP Solenoid was wired back the same way it was on originally. I took a picture to ensure it. Top of the solenoid is facing the pass side. Top (big) post Power to GP Resistor and a white wire to the GP button/switch...I think. Going down, to next little post, pink wire. Next little post green and blue wire. Bottom big post, 2x heavier gauge orange wire and a smaller gauge orange wire.

Semper Fi,
Tommy

 

[Mainsail]

The high temp light did come on yesterday for a while while working her hard. Stopped and let her cool, caped off fluid and she ran like normal up till this AM.

I was hauling a good amount of dirt when it temp light went on, but let her cool and it was fine for two days, up till yesterday AM.

I'm confused. In your first post you say the Temp light (which is red and traditionally means STOP) came on "for a while" and today's post implies it ran fine for two days after the Temp light incident.

I asked if the motor was even rotational because you seemed to be saying it was running well, you ran it hot "for a while", and after it cooled it wouldn't start. Before you start throwing parts at it you might try to be a little more clear on what happened. If you ran it hot for a while but then it was fine for two days afterward (today's post) then my advice to check for rotation is misguided.

 

[tommyd]

When the temp light went on, I pulled over and let her cool down. Topped off the fluid and continued home, without the high temp light on. The light never came on again after it cooled down. It was pretty hot out and I was pushing her, hauling 2-3 yards of dirt at highway speeds. Continued to use it for two more days without issue. Yesterday it wouldn't start.

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

Not sure where you are with this, Tommy. If you haven't made any progress, I suggest you put the original GP relay back, as it's possible that you got the wrong relay which is why you have smoke from the resistor bank. Putting the old relay back in will eliminate that variable and you can move on to finding the no-crank problem.

Then, go back to Keith's post and start there. If you report your progress as you go, folks here will be happy to talk you through it.