Some brake questions

[russojap]

Ok thanks Menaces, very useful info there, I'll try to pay attention to what's going on from now on.

It also looks like I'm going to have to replace the brake lines on the front because of rust, I was going to anyway but now it's definitely a priority because of the condition.
If I take the line to the place that makes them in town will they be able to replicate it pretty much exactly? Is there anything specific I should ask for? Can the same place make better hoses than I can buy surplus? Somebody told me to get steel braided hoses. Thanks.


On a side note, is there something missing here? What are the threads for?

 

[98G]

Ok thanks Menaces, very useful info there, I'll try to pay attention to what's going on from now on.

It also looks like I'm going to have to replace the brake lines on the front because of rust, I was going to anyway but now it's definitely a priority because of the condition.
If I take the line to the place that makes them in town will they be able to replicate it pretty much exactly? Is there anything specific I should ask for? Can the same place make better hoses than I can buy surplus? Somebody told me to get steel braided hoses. Thanks.

View attachment 741570
On a side note, is there something missing here? What are the threads for?

View attachment 741571
View attachment 741572

Side note - fording plug. Best left as it is unless you're deep enough to submerge it.

 

[Menaces Nemesis]

Ok thanks Menaces, very useful info there, I'll try to pay attention to what's going on from now on.

It also looks like I'm going to have to replace the brake lines on the front because of rust, I was going to anyway but now it's definitely a priority because of the condition.
If I take the line to the place that makes them in town will they be able to replicate it pretty much exactly? Is there anything specific I should ask for? Can the same place make better hoses than I can buy surplus? Somebody told me to get steel braided hoses. Thanks.

View attachment 741570
On a side note, is there something missing here? What are the threads for?

View attachment 741571
View attachment 741572

A good shop will put together DOT compliant lines, and I believe they may even stamp them as such. In which case, absolutely they'll be as good, or better than, NOS lines, especially since they'll be put together from recently produced materials that haven't sat on a shelf for 30+years. And, taking your old lines in is the way to go. That way you know your fittings will be matched to what exists on your truck (which, after 50 years, may have been slighty modified along the way) and if you see that one of your old lines is being stretched a bit during steering/articulation, you can request a bit more length .

Given the deuce's single-circuit brake system, from what I've gathered, some folks frown on the braided lines because it's said the stainless braiding (not to be confused with an outer PVC cover) can hide problems in the core teflon tubing. In contrast, stock-type lines tend to readily show aging and cracks, and brake fluid shows up better on their matte rubber exterior, so leaks can potentially be identified more readily, before the problem gets worse.

From americanmuscle.com; Downsides to Stainless Lines

"With the increase in strength associated with stainless steel lines, also comes a little more maintenance. The braided mesh covering can allow small dust and dirt particles to get between the braiding and hydraulic line. Over time, these dirt particles will wear away at the inner lining and will eventually cause a leak. Most stainless steel brake lines will come with a PVC (or other similar covering) on them to prevent dirt intrusion, but it is important to know the specifics of your lines. Even if you do have a PVC covering on your stainless braided lines, it is still a good idea to check them periodically for leaks."

 

[rustystud]

The Teflon stainless steel braided lines are the way to go. I've heard of that "myth" of the sheathing hiding leaks. Well it's not true. At the kind of pressure produced in the brake system no little plastic coating is going to hold up. It will leak. The coating is just for debris getting into the braid and for smooth operation over objects. Like when your turning and it tries to catch on a shock or something. The coating provides no "holding" force against the brake fluid at all. Now hose for say a 10 ton porta-power unit will have a hard coating which is used in combination with the braided steel to hold pressure. That can hide a leak, or at least mislead you to where it is.

 

[frank8003]

The brakes have gone down for some reason and I haven't had a chance to look at anything yet, ~Edit: Checked it out today, master cylinder was empty. ~
I think the synchronizer may be bad because it grinds going into first gear.

It all turns in there even in neutral with the clutch out. It helps to know how it works, JUST play with it a bit, try to put in reverse then into first, on the same shaft.

And just fix the brakes. You may find some of this when you take it apart.


and the one silly bolt on the MC, use your 1/4" set to get to the bolt.
https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?127670-master-cylinder

Pull the tunnel covers an see whats in there, watch what goes around while in neutral and there is a lot of grease points in there to do too.

 

[sgms18]

I will go ahead and try to take the MC out since that's where everything starts and it looks harder than doing a wheel cylinder.

Replacing the MC really isn't hard at all. Theres 1 bolt thats a little bit of a pain. The biggest thing is not rounding off the lines. Just use a good line wrench or Snap-On flank drive wrench. Honestly, I have better luck w/the Snap-Ons myself.

 

[tobyS]

While you don't seem to be replacing steel lines, there is a bit of debate about using spring wound lines. What happens there, is that the spring holds debris and then moisture, rusting them faster than plain steel. Thus if you have to replace some steel lines...just use plain steel, not spring wound. Primer and paint might help with the rust, but brake fluid will ruin the paint.

 

[tobyS]

It all turns in there even in neutral with the clutch out. It helps to know how it works, JUST play with it a bit, try to put in reverse then into first, on the same shaft.

And just fix the brakes. You may find some of this when you take it apart.
View attachment 741604View attachment 741605View attachment 741606View attachment 741607

and the one silly bolt on the MC, use your 1/4" set to get to the bolt.
https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?127670-master-cylinder

Pull the tunnel covers an see whats in there, watch what goes around while in neutral and there is a lot of grease points in there to do too.

I have 6 of these cylinders new old stock that have the wrong pistons. They have a flat piston, not one with a V. If anyone has some old wheel cylinders that we could recover pistons, please PM me.

I've put them in the classified since I'm going to use the 1 1/2" size on my A3 4x4 but I would purchase the pistons (12) to make complete ones for an M35A2. They are listed in classified for anyone that wants to refresh their brakes and can recover their pistons.

 

[russojap]

While you don't seem to be replacing steel lines, there is a bit of debate about using spring wound lines. What happens there, is that the spring holds debris and then moisture, rusting them faster than plain steel. Thus if you have to replace some steel lines...just use plain steel, not spring wound. Primer and paint might help with the rust, but brake fluid will ruin the paint.

I AM replacing the steel lines and the hoses Toby, at least any that look like the front one that are obviously rusty, sorry I didn't make that clear. That's what I was referring to about the shop making the steel lines the same shape. Thanks for the info about the spring , I'll tell them I want plain ones.

 

[tobyS]

Here is an interesting discussion about polymer coated lines from Napa. Even green available, I think.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/polymer-coated-brake-lines.294579/

 

[yolner]

I AM replacing the steel lines and the hoses Toby, at least any that look like the front one that are obviously rusty, sorry I didn't make that clear. That's what I was referring to about the shop making the steel lines the same shape. Thanks for the info about the spring , I'll tell them I want plain ones.

You might want to think about using the copper-nickel brake lines. Will never rust and easy to bend by hand. I'm not talking about regular copper tubing you find at home depot either. They make special copper tubing just for brake lines.

 

[tobyS]

You might want to think about using the copper-nickel brake lines. Will never rust and easy to bend by hand. I'm not talking about regular copper tubing you find at home depot either. They make special copper tubing just for brake lines.

I like what JEGS says about the copper nickel lines; "They are strong as steel, rust proof and easier to work with than any brake line on the market."

That sounds good to me...will be my choice as I redo mine.

 

[tobyS]

What size lines are you using?

Since I'm a 4x4, a 50-50 system and am 1 1/2" piston, I want to keep the size large, at least until it splits to each wheel. I'm looking at 1/4" going to 3/16".

 

[yolner]

What size lines are you using?

Since I'm a 4x4, a 50-50 system and am 1 1/2" piston, I want to keep the size large, at least until it splits to each wheel. I'm looking at 1/4" going to 3/16".

That's probably too small. Stock is 5/16 on the frame and 1/4 down to the cylinders.

 

[tobyS]

That's probably too small. Stock is 5/16 on the frame and 1/4 down to the cylinders.

Yep, you're right. I just went and measured to confirm it.

 

[russojap]

You might want to think about using the copper-nickel brake lines. Will never rust and easy to bend by hand. I'm not talking about regular copper tubing you find at home depot either. They make special copper tubing just for brake lines.

I have read about those, I don't have any experience making brake lines, and intended to take them into the shop and have them make them. Is that wrong? Should I try to make them myself?

 

[cattlerepairman]

I have read about those, I don't have any experience making brake lines, and intended to take them into the shop and have them make them. Is that wrong? Should I try to make them myself?

Read this: https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showt...LINE-REFERENCE-GUIDE-(Sizes-lengths-fittings)

I had never done the "double flare" or "Inverted flare" but got myself a reasonably cheap brake line flare tool, some CUNIFER brake line and started making flares. Once figured out, it is actually quite simple and a reasonably priced tool seems to make reasonably nice flares. I know because the lines I made hold up and don't leak.

It is simply another skill learned and another thing I can do if I have to if I ever bust a line.

 

[yolner]

I have read about those, I don't have any experience making brake lines, and intended to take them into the shop and have them make them. Is that wrong? Should I try to make them myself?

You can measure and have the shop give you straight sections of pre-flared brake line and then bend them yourself. The typical brake flaring kits they sell for a few $ at the parts stores are kind of a hassle to use and hard to get a straight flare IMO. I bought a professional hydraulic tool ($$$) to do mine and with that it's super easy.

 

[russojap]

You can measure and have the shop give you straight sections of pre-flared brake line and then bend them yourself. The typical brake flaring kits they sell for a few $ at the parts stores are kind of a hassle to use and hard to get a straight flare IMO. I bought a professional hydraulic tool ($$$) to do mine and with that it's super easy.

Thank you! Great idea.

 

[frank8003]

View attachment FLARE tubing brake flare chart common flares6.pdf