Sound proofing, is it worth the money and time?

[honda]

Meet Eleanor

 

[Rvitko]

Those that have used the Civvy intake muffler, how did you install it? I bought one but the bracket install eludes me, it looks like it bolts to the exhaust manifold and then a hose would run to the air intake knock out in front of the front battery?

 

[Hasdrubal]

Mine is only attached to the air cleaner with a hose clamp, hangs there fairly rigid, also have a zap strap at the front around the intake nozzle that wraps around the front battery tray, to keep it from vibrating around. Never had any kind of clamp but these pictures show a few..

 

[Rvitko]

Thanks, did you get the complete civvy air cleaner? I only have the resonator/muffler and the bracket and was going to route it with a hose to the cold air intake knock out in front of the battery.

 

[tim292stro]

I'm going nearly the whole 4x4 pickup/blazer/suburban path on guidance from my local GM dealer's head mechanic who has been there since the '70's:

#5 is P/N: 15657356
#6 is P/N: 15606882
#9 is P/N: 25097949

3rd party web sites seems to have a mess of what was available, and a lot of it is mislisted, it's best to go directly to the people who have the factory parts manuals and option codes here. What this setup does is get the intake air from over at the passenger fender. If I put a good acoustic blanket in the fender wall any sound waves coming out the intake duct opening will run into that blanket. I'd still be pulling intake air in from under the hood (not ideal I know), but this setup fits between two 6TLs and doesn't require any new holes which is a big deal for me (not trying to do anything I can't reverse).

 

[Rvitko]

That looks like the ultimate way to do it, any chance of getting the source of that picture? Vehicle type? I agree, I have found a half dozen configurations and it is very confusing, I am interested in part 7, 10 and 11 as well so I wanted to research those numbers.

 

[Rvitko]

What I would do is then run from the cold air intake knock out on the front rad support to part 7, even if they were not actually coupled it would get nice cool air to it.

 

[tim292stro]

Behind the NATO slave port is the factory cold-ram-air intake port knock-out. I don't personally want to use that on mine, but that would be one of the better places to get it from. The C30 crew-cab I bought for the XM1027 project used that port with the 454 gasser, and a combined pre-cleaner/resonator. If you really use your truck for off-roading one of the issues with the #8 in that picture is that it pulls air in from between the inner fender and the front bumper. If you ever go through a creek, stream, or standing water in a rut - you're likely to end up sucking in some water and risking hydro-locking your engine. One of the things about having the air cleaner housing pull in from the top of the engine compartment is that the water has to get that high before it can drown your engine. I NEVER plan on taking my M1009 through any kind of serious off-road, it's not that kind of toy for me, but I still have situations where flooding on unfamiliar local roads might find a good splash headed towards such a low intake by the front bumper.

#10 and #11 in that picture are just a mount and a hose clamp essentially. They are not really designed to work with a dual 6TL setup in a military square body, just the single battery per side civilian version - you'll need to roll your own. The picture is from GM's parts catalog, once you see it, you can recognize the image on just about any GM parts seller website, although some sites change the numbers. The big trick is getting the actual GM part number, as GM is a "parts bin" manufacturer, they use the same parts across many brands and models so you need to find the most common ones that fit your needs. It took me a few weeks to get the three parts, but I have them and spent less than $60 getting them (some were new in box/NOS spares from dealers).

My caution is, CUCVs come from a body style/line that changed in 1988, so we're getting to about 30 years - that's about the threshold many of the common spares dealers retain parts before they liquidate them. It does mean that good deals are to be found, but they may also not come around again...

 

[Another Ahab]

My caution is, CUCVs come from a body style/line that changed in 1988, so we're getting to about 30 years - that's about the threshold many of the common spares dealers retain parts before they liquidate them. It does mean that good deals are to be found, but they may also not come around again...

That sounds like an internet business opportunity for somebody with access to cheap warehousing in the Rust Belt somewhere.

So that's the industry standard, is it:

- 30 years and the parts are all toast?

 

[usabamaman]

I have put the sound deadening mat in the doors and tailgate along with the two layers of of Home Depot two sided aluminum insulation. All door, window and tailgate rubber has been replaced. Still to go is the floor, it needs repair and paint before anything else. I also have a vibration in the body I think is from a worn motor mount, but I am leery of new chinese motor mounts. Anybody know where really good motor mounts are available?

 

[cucvrus]

Anybody know where really good motor mounts are available?

The best motor mounts I found are energy suspension. About $60. I put about 10 pair in for myself and others. You must re-use the clam sheel of the OEM motor mounts. Easy.

 

[Rvitko]

I am not looking to ford water so I am not too concerned with hydro locking. I will get on ordering those parts. Every company varies. I have rebuilt old vw diesels, they clear out after 10 years. Mercedes is the other end of the spectrum, 100 years old if they don't have it they'll make it, you will pay though. Having also done a 57 Chevy in the past, they are pretty good about supporting old stuff, that may have changed with the bail out/ restructuring.

 

[Rvitko]

I plan to do just what cucvrus recommended, I already have them, just need to put them in. I used their bushings on my leaf springs and sway bar.

 

[usabamaman]

Do these Energy Suspension mounts dampen vibration as well as new OEM ones would?

 

[tim292stro]

It'll depend on the durometer of the material. Generally aftermarket Polyurethane mounts are harder/stiffer than rubber so they may transmit more vibration into the chassis from the powertrain - but again it's all down to the durometer. The lower the durometer the softer the material. This also means that it'll flex under the weight of the engine and transmission. As long as you calculate all of that up, you can get the raw polyurethane sheet and cut it or machine it (or have that done).

For the XM1027 I am making my own (because it's actually not THAT difficult...) because what I want is not off the shelf. I wanted the Marine 6BT 4-point engine mount style, but I still need to fit the power steering pump and suspension in there (which you wouldn't need in a boat).

In general if you can do a large/soft mount you will get better performance out of the mount/isolator than a smaller/harder mount. If quiet and smooth is what you are going for changes can be made to the factory design to improve it's function.

 

[Another Ahab]

I am not looking to ford water so I am not too concerned with hydro locking. I will get on ordering those parts. Every company varies. I have rebuilt old vw diesels, they clear out after 10 years. Mercedes is the other end of the spectrum, 100 years old if they don't have it they'll make it, you will pay though. Having also done a 57 Chevy in the past, they are pretty good about supporting old stuff, that may have changed with the bail out/ restructuring.

I never heard about that before. That's a good business model. Daimler-Benz, they're a class act.

 

[usabamaman]

I am interested in sound suppression and lessening vibration. I can feel the excess vibration thru the body. Today I ordered a new OEM style fuel pump. The one on the engine is leaking at the top all around the seams. I can only guess that this is caused by the excessive vibration. My 1983 Corps of Engineer C-20 with 350 engine has none of this vibration and the fuel pump was just replaced because it was not pumping, probably the ethanol gas.

 

[tim292stro]

A Diesel is not a Gasser, the reason that diesel's have more torque is that the force in the compression ignition "bang" is harder than in a spark ignited-engine. This means more vibration in general introduced into the block and crank. There is a reason that tire vendors sometimes list "wear predictions not guaranteed with diesel vehicles" or something to that effect, those vibrations get all the way out to the rubber-road interface and chew up tires (then there's the torque applied by a heavy right foot on the skinny pedal too).

On older body mounts and engine mounts, the rubber starts to get hard with age - and sometimes the rubber will crumble leaving a metal-to-metal contact. This is why I said making certain you have GOOD mounts and isolators is important for vibration control. You can get 30 year old NOS mounts that are as bad or worse than the one you take off original equipment, some parts are flushed out of DoD inventory because the shelf life expired and the item is no longer expected to work as designed. You need to be careful with that stuff.

The pump you're talking about I'm guessing is the lift pump on the forward passenger side of the engine block? these have rubber parts inside of them that are also subject to wearing out and leaking.

 

[Rvitko]

I never heard about that before. That's a good business model. Daimler-Benz, they're a class act.

Before my Cucv I restored a 67 fintail with a 2l diesel and they have a classic car dept at Mercedes. I got their magazine and they had a story about 2 customers needing a power brake booster from the early 50's they made 3, they were $7000 a piece as I recall but they went in early sl's which are worth hundreds of thousands. For a while they were making the original 3 wheel Benz brand new complete to original specs.

 

[Jozseph]

Before my Cucv I restored a 67 fintail with a 2l diesel and they have a classic car dept at Mercedes. I got their magazine and they had a story about 2 customers needing a power brake booster from the early 50's they made 3, they were $7000 a piece as I recall but they went in early sl's which are worth hundreds of thousands. For a while they were making the original 3 wheel Benz brand new complete to original specs.

As J. P. Morgan said, "If you have to ask how much it costs, you can't afford it."

Mercedes-Benz Classic Center

http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/enthusiast/classic_center#module-1