Spicer 3053A shifting problems

[gringeltaube]

I just checked and yes the flywheel does turn counter clockwise. Is this the same direction as the m35? or is mine spinning the wrong way?? I sure hope not.....

Yes, CCW - looking rear to front of engine.

It would make sense for it to push itself out of 5th if it was spinning the wrong way.

Why so? Spinning "the wrong way" wouldn't be any different than for example coasting (in 5th and clutch depressed) then releasing the clutch. A sound transmission will stay in gear, either way.


G.

 

[Jeepsinker]

I was just thinking that if it pulls itself into gear under load spinning one way, perhaps it could do the opposite spinning in the other direction. Seems logical enough, but of course I am not the resident spicer expert here. Only had mine apart once so far.

 

[rustystud]

Have you inspected the top cover and shift rails ? If there is any slop in the guides the rails slide in they can cause grief. Also if the rails themselves are worn and the shift forks are loose. Also have you checked the drivelines ? Are any U-joints loose ? Do any of the shafts have dents in them ? This can cause a "out of balance vibration" which can then be transmitted to the transmission. I have an extremely embarrassing story about a deuce that had a bad driveline that caused heavy vibration in the transmission which caused the tranny to kick out of fifth.

 

[73m819]

I think the problem is the syncos, not staying in 2nd under deceleration and a chore of getting out of third and falling out of 5th ARE signs of bad syncos, just because it is supposed to be rebuild DOES NOT all the insides were replaced, more likely the bearings and anything looking chipped, broke, ect.

 

[peashooter]

I had an issue with the trans popping out of 5th gear but it was a worn syncro that could be visibly seen with the top cover off. The syncro's teeth had gone from a square shape to a triangular shape so when under a load it would slide the syncro off 5th... this doesnt appear to be your issue.
I did also buy a Toole depot rebuilt transmission that was still in the crate last year. I took it out and wasnt able to shift any of the gears so I took the top cover off and still wasnt able to manually move anything around inside. I ended up discovering that something must have fallen on the top plate shift lever at some point because I noticed a bent or broken sheetmetal stopper piece that allowed one shift fork to overtravel and jam up some gears... long story short is that perhaps the top plate does have some unseen issue? Probably a dumb question but since this isnt installed in a deuce, have you verified that their isnt anything interfering with the shifter arm that might prevent it from fully engauging in 5th?

 

[gimpyrobb]

Probably a dumb question but since this isnt installed in a deuce, have you verified that their isnt anything interfering with the shifter arm that might prevent it from fully engauging in 5th?

I never thought about that, when does the spraq rod stick out the back? Reverse?

 

[gringeltaube]

...... when does the spraq rod stick out the back? Reverse?

Yes.



G.

 

[Jeremy W]

Have you inspected the top cover and shift rails ? If there is any slop in the guides the rails slide in they can cause grief. Also if the rails themselves are worn and the shift forks are loose. Also have you checked the drivelines ? Are any U-joints loose ? Do any of the shafts have dents in them ? This can cause a "out of balance vibration" which can then be transmitted to the transmission. I have an extremely embarrassing story about a deuce that had a bad driveline that caused heavy vibration in the transmission which caused the tranny to kick out of fifth.

I have inspected the top cover and shift rails and they seem brand new. Driveshaft was just rebuilt with new joints and professionally balanced so it's not that either. :-/

 

[Jeremy W]

I had an issue with the trans popping out of 5th gear but it was a worn syncro that could be visibly seen with the top cover off. The syncro's teeth had gone from a square shape to a triangular shape so when under a load it would slide the syncro off 5th... this doesnt appear to be your issue.
I did also buy a Toole depot rebuilt transmission that was still in the crate last year. I took it out and wasnt able to shift any of the gears so I took the top cover off and still wasnt able to manually move anything around inside. I ended up discovering that something must have fallen on the top plate shift lever at some point because I noticed a bent or broken sheetmetal stopper piece that allowed one shift fork to overtravel and jam up some gears... long story short is that perhaps the top plate does have some unseen issue? Probably a dumb question but since this isnt installed in a deuce, have you verified that their isnt anything interfering with the shifter arm that might prevent it from fully engauging in 5th?

Yep, that sprag definitely has enough room for travel.

I guess I need to take it apart now. I'll report back once I have the time to do it..

thanks guys.

 

[daytonatrbo]

I'm not sure if this is strictly related to this post, but one of my trucks has a very audible whine at speed (40+) that the other truck does not exhibit.

Its not as deep as I would expect from the differentials, I'm thinking its in the trans or transfer case.

It is louder under load, and silent when I match my throttle to my road speed and take the load "off" of the drivetrain all together. It is definitely related to ground speed and not engine speed. I don't think the truck will even go fast enough in low range to make the noise, so I haven't tested that.

Any thoughts on further troubleshooting would be helpful.

 

[m-35tom]

ok, do this. watch the shifter while in 5th at road speed. when you get on power, the shifter should move forward and off power it should move to the rear. the only other thing i can think of that would reverse this would be some misalignment between the trans and engine.

 

[Jeremy W]

ok, do this. watch the shifter while in 5th at road speed. when you get on power, the shifter should move forward and off power it should move to the rear. the only other thing i can think of that would reverse this would be some misalignment between the trans and engine.

It definitely does the opposite. Creeps towards neutral until pops out under accel. Decel brings it tighter back into gear.

I don't know how it could be out of alignment since it's fit into a pilot bushing that is within .002" but anything is possible at this point. How would I go about making sure? Should I maybe put some pressure under the transmission with a jack and try loosening and re-tightening the bolts?

One thing i'm thinking is a possibility now is that when I first installed it, i wasn't quite sure if the tip was "in" the pilot bushing, and began tightening the bolts to the bellhousing until it started to bind then I stopped. I wonder if this possibly pushed the shaft enough to start forcing the bearing out of alignment in the casing? it left a definite mark of the bushing face where it was contacting. (had no clutch alignment tool)

Is it pretty normal to have a good amount of clatter while in neutral and the clutch disengaged? Because I do.

 

[m-35tom]

is it possible the front of shaft is no longer in the pilot bearing?
it could be out of alignment if the trans is not directly behind the engine as in a defective bell housing or flywheel housing.
how do you mean 'clutch disengaged'? disengaged is when you push pedal down and then it should be quiet compared to when foot is off pedal in neutral. these can be noisy trans.

 

[m-35tom]

now this becomes important, at speed in 5th when you coast does the shifter also try to move to the rear? (but is not likely to come out) 5th gear position is towards the front, right? with 4th to the rear?

 

[Jeremy W]

is it possible the front of shaft is no longer in the pilot bearing?

No, it's definitely in there. There's not enough room in there for the trans to be bolted in and the input shaft tip to not be in the bushing.

I am running an SAE #3 spacer ring on the bellhousing that is 1 3/4" long which I suppose could help throw things out of alignment but it all went together really tight so I really don't think so.

I was incorrect. Should have wrote clutch "engaged."

Another thing that I had to do to get this transmission mounted in my truck is make a mount that bolts on top of the lower bearing cap just above the drain plug. That mount is bolted to a custom crossmember that is bridged between the frame rails. This mount holds the weight of the transmission and some of the motor's weight. Could this be a contributing factor?

 

[Jeremy W]

now this becomes important, at speed in 5th when you coast does the shifter also try to move to the rear? (but is not likely to come out) 5th gear position is towards the front, right? with 4th to the rear?

As soon as I let off the throttle, if it hasn't fallen out of 5th gear yet, the shifter will move forward (engaging further) back where it "should" be. Back on the throttle again and it will slowly move backwards again towards neutral every time. Usually takes about 5 seconds for it to pop out. The harder on the throttle, the faster it will pop out.

Yep 5th gear position towards the front of the truck.

 

[m-35tom]

best guess then is it was not a new trans, but a rebuilt one with worn parts. or defective new parts, anyway only taking it apart and experienced eyes will know for sure.

 

[Jeremy W]

I still haven't had a chance to take it apart but i've been thinking and I have a question. I did NOT use a clutch alignment tool when I installed the trans. With some trial and error I ended up making do without it and saving the $80 the parts dealer wanted for the alignment tool. Now I also noticed a small amount of play in the input shaft before I installed everything. So the question is, do you guys think that this could have caused some misalignment and hence my shifting problems? Since there was a little play in the input shaft and there's definitely a good chance the clutch is not perfectly centered, I would think this could cause the input shaft to be shifted one way or the other just slightly. It just seems that with the difficulty engaging 2nd, difficulty DISengaging 3rd, and popping out of 5th maybe it IS just a misalignment. Maybe it's worth trying to re-align the clutch with an actual alignment tool (anyone know where I can get one for cheaper than $80??).

 

[m-35tom]

play in the front of the shaft is normal since there is nothing to support it. it would not have gone in if the pilot brng was not near perfect. not going into 2nd sitting still is normal. other problem are strange and i am sure you will find something worn out when you pull it apart.

 

[gimpyrobb]

play in the front of the shaft is normal since there is nothing to support it. it would not have gone in if the pilot brng was not near perfect. not going into 2nd sitting still is normal. other problem are strange and i am sure you will find something worn out when you pull it apart.

This.