Spin On Question

[Tinwoodsman]

I am planning to order a complete kit of spin-on filters from Westfolk. My question is what do you give up by not being able to drain fuel from the primary and secondaries?

 

[Westech]

you can buy fliters with drain plugs. most large diesel filters have them.

 

[Jimma]

You usually can get them. Check Jantonka's before buying. Pictures and explanation are very good. I changed my primary fuel filter today and on the next change I am going to the spin on's.

 

[glcaines]

I don't think it's that hard to change the cartridges, so I'm sticking with the originals.

 

[Westex]

I went with Jatonka and never looked back. Pretty close to instant oil pressure. And that's after it sits in my yard for weeks at a time without a fire up.

 

[DUG]

I have a complete set from Westfolk. My primary has a drain. I'm told I can get secondarys with a drain, but haven't looked. The primary filter from Westfolk is not an adapter plate, but a complete conversion - the same as many folks here have put together themselves and posted about. If you go with Westfolk's it's already done and ready to bolt on in the factory spot - nothing else required. His secondary fuel and oil adapters are top notch and easy to install with clear instructional videos.

I did mine in 3 sessions as each kit became availible and simply oversaw my 13 year old doing the work. Yeah, he is a future top wrench in the making, but it is really that easy. And less expensive if I remember correctly.

My convoy buddy Phil has JAtonka's filter kits on his deuce and has never had a problem. Hard to go wrong with either. (but I like Westfolks primary better myself)

Your mileage may vary, to each his own, etc, etc.

 

[TexAndy]

Question...

What exactly does the lack of oil pressure in the first 10 seconds of operation mean? The engine is still operating with lubrication from the residual film of oil on the parts, right?

 

[gimpyrobb]

Yup. That pressure lag is the oil filling up the oil filter housings. The oil drains back to the oil pan when the motor isn't running.

 

[stumps]

Question...

What exactly does the lack of oil pressure in the first 10 seconds of operation mean? The engine is still operating with lubrication from the residual film of oil on the parts, right?

Well, it's like this, as the truck sits, the oil drains back through the oil pump and empties the filter cans. Because there is nothing to stop the flow of oil back and forth, it also drains down all of the journals and galleries that are above the sump. When you start the engine up, all of the air in the filter cans has to get blown through the oil system (and bearings) before fresh oil can get there. It is very much like blowing the oil out with compressed air... because that is exactly what is happening.

There is still a film in all of the bearings true, but there is no oil to fill the gap between bearing and journal because the air from the filter cans blew it out. That means that the oil isn't providing a cushion against the shock of the piston changing direction.. all of the rod bearings are getting slapped around when the engine fires, and there is more metal to metal contact than is desirable.

When you use spin on filters that have the anti-backflow valves, you are getting a double benefit. The valves do the obvious thing of preventing the oil in the filter cans from running back, through the pump, into the oil pan. They also prevent the oil from going in the other direction. They do this by sealing the filter's anti-backflow valves under the weight of the oil in the can. This prevents the oil from getting siphoned out of the journals and galleries that are on the exit side of the system (Think of a soda straw when you put your finger over the end, and lift it out of your drink.).

I think most of us are guilty of starting our deuces too often just because we like hearing them run. When we do this, we are accelerating the wear the engine experiences over what it saw in service. Adding spin on filters with anti-backflow valves minimizes the time the bearings go without oil after startup. This should allow your deuce to withstand 9 or 10 times as many cold starts as it could with the filter cartridges. Definitely a good thing!

-Chuck

 

[jollyroger]

I bought, got for Christmas, JaTonka's setup for fuel and oil. It's good stuff. I hear good things about Westfolks stuff too. I don't think you can go wrong either way.

IMHO the spin on commercially available filters promote more frequent filter changing. If we know we can get the filter locally it helps in making that I feel like changing oil this weekend decision over having to order filters in advance, having them shipped in and stocking up on spares.

The important thing for me is the antidrainback feature for the oil filters. Oil and trash does not drain back into the motor and no muss no fuss for filter changes.

 

[Katahdin]

Like others had said there are spin-on fuel filters with purge screws.

However, when draining I recently discovered it's not advisable to follow SOP by turning on the accessory switch to pressurize the fuel system with the tank pump. Turning the purge screw with the line pressurized will have a fire sprinkler effect and you'll be wearing the fuel. Ask me how I know.

So.... I suggest draining the filters first, then turn on the accessory switch to run the pump and purge the air that just entered the fuel system with the peacock from the top of the secondary filters.

 

[jollyroger]

Good advice from a man who knows......unfortunately

So......How does the clothes washer smell now?

 

[dabtl]

I put the jatonka filters on the moment they were offered. The primary fuel filter adapter took about five minutes to install and works great. I did not go with a system replacement on that because it was simply more work to do the same job. Simple enough it seemed.

Using diesel fuel additives and bio killer seems to reduce the amount of water in the fuel. Tho, that is not a scientific certainty. But, I do seem to be getting much less. Perhaps it is just Summer in Texas with no moisture also?

 

[clinto]

Question...

What exactly does the lack of oil pressure in the first 10 seconds of operation mean? The engine is still operating with lubrication from the residual film of oil on the parts, right?

Google "hydrodynamic wedge"-that's the principle of how pressurized oil between the crank and bearings (and rods and bearings) keeps everything happy. I doubt the film of oil remaining makes much difference.

 

[DUG]

I put the jatonka filters on the moment they were offered. The primary fuel filter adapter took about five minutes to install and works great. I did not go with a system replacement on that because it was simply more work to do the same job. Simple enough it seemed.

I would say the system replacement set up is just as easy if not easier to install IMHO. You simply disconnect two lines (input and output) and remove the three bolts holding everything to the truck.

Then you install it in the exact same spot using the same three bolts. Reconnect the two lines.

Adapters are great - I have them in use on the four other filters, but there are more surfaces the could leak. Probably never will if installed properly, but could.

The reason I switched to begin with was I was having problems with my canister primary coming loose for some unknown reason and causing starting problems for me. I want my primary filter to be as simple as possible.

While it may have taken the boy over five minutes to install, I bet I could do it in three.

 

[Katahdin]

Good advice from a man who knows......unfortunately

So......How does the clothes washer smell now?

Having made the mistake of mixing petrol contaminated fabrics with other laundry loads before, these went through a cycle by themselves. The wife detected the smell when she opened the washer and washed them a second time with a boost of Oxy Clean. She was surprisingly Ok with the incident but I did warn her what had happened.

I was going to wash them a third time but to my surprise I found the articles this morning in the clean pile. You can still detect a tinge of mixed deuce fuel odor, but in a Downy freshness sort of way....

 

[stumps]

I'm curious about the purge screw on fuel filter thing. In every application I have seen, the fuel filter cans point downward, and the screw on the filter is the water drain. Are these spin on filters mounted upside down?

Or are you warning that the water drain, when in the downward direction, sprinkles and sprays fuel all over the place?

-Chuck

 

[Katahdin]

Or are you warning that the water drain, when in the downward direction, sprinkles and sprays fuel all over the place?

-Chuck

This, when the accessory switch is on to run the fuel pump, which is SOP when draining water from the original peacock canisters.

The peacock opening directs the pressurized fuel downward.

The crack when the spin-on purge screw is opened directs the pressurized fuel outward.

 

[stumps]

I wonder if they are all that way? The filters I have been putting on my trucks direct the flow downward through the center of the screw/plug.

-Chuck

 

[Katahdin]

I wonder if they are all that way? The filters I have been putting on my trucks direct the flow downward through the center of the screw/plug.

-Chuck

That's a good point/question. My fuel spray experience was with a NAPA 3405 filter without any hole through the plug.