Started my 003 for the first time since January

[Rapracing]

I am going out of town for a week and wanted to be sure the wife had back up power so I went out and started the 002. It is the one connected to the house right now.

I decided that since neither one had been started since mid January I'd start the 003 as well. I had the batteries topped off on both so they both fired right up. The 002 ran for the better part of an hour with a load on it.

The 003 had no load. I was messing around doing a couple other things and with the noise didn't notice the 003 had shut down. I tried starting it up and it took off but ran rough then shut off. I tried 3 more times. It seems to prime okay and then run for about a minute the start missing and shuts off. I think it's starved for fuel. I put the switch on prime and open the valve on the bottom of the strainer and get a flow but no pressure (should there be pressure?). I get now fuel or very little out of the other two filter valves. They are new filters. It was getting dark but the fuel seemed like it had a brown(rust) look to it that I was getting.

Do I need to drain the tank and clean it again? or just replace the filters?

I have new baskets for in the pumps so I'm going to change them.

Where would you all start?

Thanks

 

[gimpyrobb]

Possible you got bio-sludge growing in the fuel. I'd pull the filters and check them first.

 

[mkcoen]

Having a similar issue with my 003 although I've got plenty of fuel at the filters. Keith_J was looking it over and thinks the valve stems have got some varnish or gunk on them and not letting the valves open/close all the way. Billowing clouds of aromatic white smoke engulf us as we're working on it. Getting too hot in the afternoon so need to wait for him to have some free time in the morning to crack it open.

 

[Rapracing]

Having a similar issue with my 003 although I've got plenty of fuel at the filters. Keith_J was looking it over and thinks the valve stems have got some varnish or gunk on them and not letting the valves open/close all the way. Billowing clouds of aromatic white smoke engulf us as we're working on it. Getting too hot in the afternoon so need to wait for him to have some free time in the morning to crack it open.

My seems to run fine but then runs rough and shuts off. I'm pretty sure it's starved for fuel. If I prime it seems to build some pressure and run for a short time then sputters and shuts down.

I had a little white smoke when it first started but it has always done that. Goes away in 15-20 seconds. I'd like to have the injectors gone over before winter comes. I'd kind of like to have that one hooked to the house by then.

 

[Chainbreaker]

If you think you might have some funky microorganisms growing in your fuel you might try doing a shock treatment with Power Service Biocide treatment or similar. 1 oz to 20 gallons is PS recommended dose for shock treatment. Good to use for general principal if not running generator regularly to burn through a complete tank every 6 months or so. Also, when you prime do you hear the normal trickle of fuel in tank from return fuel line? I'm wondering if the check valve may be gummed up between last fuel pump and injection pump? Maybe put some Seafoam treatment in last fuel filter bowl (50/50 mix) and then start and stop and let soak overnight to loosen any varnish or crud in check valve & injection pump.

 

[Guyfang]

Take a flashlight, and look in the tank. Then start from the tank, following the fuel system to the hose that goes to the injector pump. Check it step for step. Each portion, making sure its right. Something is restricting your fuel flow. If you have the S-1 in the prime position, you should get a flow of fuel that resembles a fire hose. There should be LOTS of pressure behind the flow. So, if you have no pressure, then you can only have a blockage, or a fuel pump/pumps, are not doing their job. This should not take you long to correct. If its funk, then chainbreaker's de-funk solution sounds like just what you need.

 

[Rapracing]

Okay! So here is what I found

I changed all filters and screens in the pumps. When messing I noticed when I put it on "Prime-Run-Aux" I had fuel pumping but on "Prime-Run" none.

None of what I did fixed the problem. It would run for 30-60 seconds and then start sputtering and shut off. After a couple of times I tried switching to the P-R-A on the switch and it picked back up and ran. It just sat out there and ran 45 minutes in that positon. I put it back in P-R and it started sputtering again. It seems to run fine in the Aux position.

Is it a bad fuel pump?

Wires connected wrong? They have not been changed since I got it and I never had this issue until last night

Will the Aux pump pump fuel from the tank in addition to an aux tank?

I guess I'm a bit Confused!

 

[Guyfang]

Your primary fuel pumps are not working. You need to check them out. Pull the plugs on both the primary fuel pumps. Place S-1 in the run position. See if you have voltage on both primary full pump plugs. If you have voltage, then hook them up one at a time. Do you get them to come on? If you have voltage at the plugs and they do not come on, then it can only be that the pumps are the problem. Is the ground good? Or are the pumps bad? A good way to test them independently is to take a wire, run it from the positive post of the batteries, to the connector on each fuel pump.

If no voltage is at the plugs when the S-1 is in the run position, then you need to see why the S-1 is not sending voltage to the pumps.

 

[Rapracing]

Your primary fuel pumps are not working. You need to check them out. Pull the plugs on both the primary fuel pumps. Place S-1 in the run position. See if you have voltage on both primary full pump plugs. If you have voltage, then hook them up one at a time. Do you get them to come on? If you have voltage at the plugs and they do not come on, then it can only be that the pumps are the problem. Is the ground good? Or are the pumps bad? A good way to test them independently is to take a wire, run it from the positive post of the batteries, to the connector on each fuel pump.

If no voltage is at the plugs when the S-1 is in the run position, then you need to see why the S-1 is not sending voltage to the pumps.

I checked and have 24.68 volts at both pumps. One runs and one does not.

I assume I'll need a pump? Where is the best place to locate one?

Thanks

(ETA) I tested the voltage at the plugs before the connection on the back of the mount. I assume it's for grounding and not a fuse of sorts?

 

[Triple Jim]

The two main pumps are redundant. If one is running correctly, the other one should pass the fuel and the engine should run. That's why there are two in series, so if one fails, the generator keeps running.

I believe some pumps won't pass fuel if they're not running. Maybe someone replaced one or more with that type, and that's what's causing one working pump to not be enough.

 

[Rapracing]

I feel a little silly. Upon further review here are the voltages I have and what is running

Aux Pump has 24.7 volts in aux OR run position

The pump on the outside of the mount has 24.7 volts but does NOT run

The pump on the inside has NO voltage but it will run if I put the wire from the other primary that has voltage on it.

S0.....

what it seems like is the one pump is bad because it has voltage and will not run

The other on has no voltage but if I put voltage on it then it does run.

Two different problems?

(ETA) Jim, the pumps appear to be all original pumps.

For a test??? If I take the wire that has voltage on it, even though it goes to the other pump, and put it on the good pump, will that hurt anything?

 

[Triple Jim]

I can't imagine how that could cause a problem, since they're all made to run on 24VDC.

 

[87Nassaublue]

Just curious but did you check the resistance of the windings of the pump that won't run vs one that does? Also check the resistance between the windings and the frame. I didn't see you note that you also checked the ground. It could possibly be stuck and whacking it a few times with something like a ratchet extension might free it up.

 

[Rapracing]

87Nassaublue. The ground seems to be fine and I did try tapping on it but that didn't start it. I did not check resistance

Jim. I put the wire that has voltage on the pump that I know would run. I disconnected the aux pump and it fired up and ran fine. I reconnected the Aux pump and still runs fine.

Now I guess I have a decision to make.

a. live with it the way it is
b. try to find where I'm loosing voltage in the other wire and I guess replace the pump that will not run.

 

[goldneagle]

87Nassaublue. The ground seems to be fine and I did try tapping on it but that didn't start it. I did not check resistance

Jim. I put the wire that has voltage on the pump that I know would run. I disconnected the aux pump and it fired up and ran fine. I reconnected the Aux pump and still runs fine.

Now I guess I have a decision to make.

a. live with it the way it is
b. try to find where I'm loosing voltage in the other wire and I guess replace the pump that will not run.

I think one of the pumps are for the Auxiliary Fuel Feed. You can test the pump by switching from primary to auxiliary fuel and see if you get voltage to the pump.

 

[Rapracing]

I think one of the pumps are for the Auxiliary Fuel Feed. You can test the pump by switching from primary to auxiliary fuel and see if you get voltage to the pump.

So I understand. You're saying the pump (wire) that has no voltage in the prime/run position may have in the prime/run/aux position?

 

[goldneagle]

So I understand. You're saying the pump (wire) that has no voltage in the prime/run position may have in the prime/run/aux position?

Yes. I doubt they need all 3 pumps to feed the fuel from the primary. In fact the auxiliary line feeds the primary fuel tank. Then the fuel is fed to the generator through the 2 primary pumps. The fuel tank has a level shut-off so you can't overfill the tank from the auxiliary source. I learned that when I set up my generator trailer with a 55 gallon auxiliary tank.

 

[Triple Jim]

In the aux tank setting, all three pumps are powered. A solenoid controls flow from the 3rd aux tank pump to the built-in tank, so it deadheads when fuel is not needed. The design of the pumps is such that pumping against a closed valve doesn't hurt anything, and the pump just clicks slowly.

 

[Rapracing]

In the aux tank setting, all three pumps are powered. A solenoid controls flow from the 3rd aux tank pump to the built-in tank, so it deadheads when fuel is not needed. The design of the pumps is such that pumping against a closed valve doesn't hurt anything, and the pump just clicks slowly.

What about in "prime-run"? Are they all to be powered then also?

 

[DieselAddict]

That runs only the primary and redundant pumps. The AUX pump wont run in that switch position.