Starter Is grinding

[M1008it]

Hi guys,

I Need you point of view about my starter.

I've got a Mt27 and few months ago I send to rebuilt at the shop.
Yesterday I've finished to rebuilt the motor and I put up the starter, I turned the Key and.. grinding with a lot of noise .

I made a short video for you.

The starter Is "no shim" and I have the bracket on.

What to do? unfortunately when the shop rebuilt It I dont measure the drive, Is necessary put down the starter and measure It?

Any suggestion? Or any hot tips to solve this Little big problem?

Tnks in Advance

M1008it

 

[sbgarage]

Dont use starter shims. Flexplate/flywheel may be loose. Check torque. Get new proper bolts and thread seal and torque to spec.

 

[M1008it]

Thnks sbgarage,

I followed your suggestion, It was very difficult and expensive to find new starter bolts but if that is what is needed to make the pickup work then I will do it.

let's see..

M1008it

 

[sbgarage]

I had meant flywheel bolts, but using new starter bolts every time is good to do because they stretch. Check also check teeth on starter and flywheel.

 

[M1008it]

Update : changed starter's Bolt but still grinding.

Checked flywheel's Bolt torque but still grinding.

Put 2mm shim on outside starter's Bolt but still grinding.

I put the starter down, open It and checked the pinion.( The rebuit shop changed It but ,now, I'm not sure of their work)

Any of you have the MT27 pinion's specs?

Tnks

M1008it

 

[cucvmule]

I am going to ask a few questions that answers are unknown to me. Did the original starter work on your truck before problems? Or you bought starter and never used it before sending out for rebuild?

Did they rebuild yours or give you a replacement? How do the flywheel teeth look, are they worn, broken missing? Loosen bracket, loosen starter bolts then retighten them, without tightening the bracket bolts tight. try starter. Is it the same or did it get more engagement? Is the flywheel used and was it flat when you used it, did you check it by laying on flat surface?

Just asking simple and basic questions to get more insight. Leave inspection cover off and have someone turn key while you look at it under truck, wearing safety glasses. I use an old Sun starter tool to and hook it to the solenoid to have a one man inspection crew. Is there a wire getting between the block and starter mounting flange? How does the starter block holes look, are they damaged. The starter aluminum nose casing, are the mounting holes round not oval. Take a starter bolt while starter is out and stick the bolt into the holes and at the knurled bolt section and see how tight the bolt is to the hole itself, is it tight or wobbly loose? Are they starter bolts with knurled sections?

 

[cucvmule]

There are 2 different brackets also, but if I remember right the bracket would not work unless the holes have been ovaled out.

 

[RattleSnack]

Just some observations after watching the video you posted...

I noticed metal shavings flying when you engaged the starter. That can't be good. That would lead me to believe that either the pinion (bendix), flywheel teeth, or both are damaged. I would drop the starter and examine the teeth.

Secondly, not sure if this is an issue or not, but the starter housing appears to be cracked. I don't think that dowel should be exposed like that. This could be causing your problem...but I'm not sure. It definitely doesn't look right.

 

[cucvmule]

I could not get a video?

 

[RattleSnack]

I could not get a video?

The video is in the zip file attachment from the first post.

 

[cucvmule]

OK I just seen video, and the flywheel looks to have severe problems, all the gteeth are chipped, ate up from grinding starter drive, and the drive itself is not fully engaging nor releasing back to disengage. And RattleSnack has a potential issue spotted as well, the housing may not be assembled correctly. Causing the starter itself to be mismatched from case to nose housing.

 

[cucvmule]

The

The video is in the zip file attachment from the first post.

Yep I could not open it, I got it open, not very computer literate.

Thanks

 

[cucvmule]

The starter is easily disassembled by taking the 2 bolts out at end of case. And easily reassembled also. If you would like to do that to inspect all componants.

 

[cucvmule]

M1008it can you take starter out and take a complete picture of the starter from the side and one of the starter drive. I also wonder if the solenoid return spring has been installed.

 

[RattleSnack]

The

Yep I could not open it, I got it open, not very computer literate.

Thanks

No problem!

Hopefully this gets M1008it pointed in the right direction.

 

[M1008it]

Hi folks,

tnks for the help. Yes sunday I've already start to open the starter. Tonight I will post some photos of the components ( bendix, armature etcetc) and some photos of flywheel too .


@cucvmule here some answers :

• Did the original starter work on your truck before problems? Or you bought starter and never used it before sending out for rebuild?
  • When I bought the truck, starter motor was good. But after a few start-up cycles ( out of gasoline--> air in the system) I've burned the solenoid so I shipped the starter motor to a rebuilt shop in Milano. Here they said me " we have completley rebuilt your starter" and so I belived because at my visual inspection I had noticed the bendix was changed and the solenoid too ( new copper stud )
  • I also seen the starter housing cracked but I'm not sure If it was there from the past or if is new. I had assumed was old
• Did they rebuild yours or give you a replacement?
  • rebuilt
• How do the flywheel teeth look, are they worn, broken missing?
  • no broken missing teeth, some teeths are little bit worn but nothing too deep ( I'm posting some photos tonight)
• Loosen bracket, loosen starter bolts then retighten them, without tightening the bracket bolts tight. try starter. Is it the same or did it get more engagement?
  • I 'will check this thing and update you
• Is the flywheel used and was it flat when you used it, did you check it by laying on flat surface?
  • flywheel is the same of few months ago when starter motor was good. I assume, if I do not make any change on flywheel, this was good in the past and is good now
• Just asking simple and basic questions to get more insight. Leave inspection cover off and have someone turn key while you look at it under truck, wearing safety glasses. I use an old Sun starter tool to and hook it to the solenoid to have a one man inspection crew. Is there a wire getting between the block and starter mounting flange?
  • I 'will check this thing and update you
• How does the starter block holes look, are they damaged. The starter aluminum nose casing, are the mounting holes round not oval. Take a starter bolt while starter is out and stick the bolt into the holes and at the knurled bolt section and see how tight the bolt is to the hole itself, is it tight or wobbly loose?
  • If I remember correctly the bolt into the holes is not tight, but I will check and update you
• Are they starter bolts with knurled sections?
  • yes

Tnks a lot for your precious help

M1008IT

 

[cucvmule]

Hi folks,

tnks for the help. Yes sunday I've already start to open the starter. Tonight I will post some photos of the components ( bendix, armature etcetc) and some photos of flywheel too .


@cucvmule here some answers :

• Did the original starter work on your truck before problems? Or you bought starter and never used it before sending out for rebuild?
  • When I bought the truck, starter motor was good. But after a few start-up cycles ( out of gasoline--> air in the system) I've burned the solenoid so I shipped the starter motor to a rebuilt shop in Milano. Here they said me " we have completley rebuilt your starter" and so I belived because at my visual inspection I had noticed the bendix was changed and the solenoid too ( new copper stud )
  • I also seen the starter housing cracked but I'm not sure If it was there from the past or if is new. I had assumed was old
• Did they rebuild yours or give you a replacement?
  • rebuilt
• How do the flywheel teeth look, are they worn, broken missing?
  • no broken missing teeth, some teeths are little bit worn but nothing too deep ( I'm posting some photos tonight)
• Loosen bracket, loosen starter bolts then retighten them, without tightening the bracket bolts tight. try starter. Is it the same or did it get more engagement?
  • I 'will check this thing and update you
• Is the flywheel used and was it flat when you used it, did you check it by laying on flat surface?
  • flywheel is the same of few months ago when starter motor was good. I assume, if I do not make any change on flywheel, this was good in the past and is good now
• Just asking simple and basic questions to get more insight. Leave inspection cover off and have someone turn key while you look at it under truck, wearing safety glasses. I use an old Sun starter tool to and hook it to the solenoid to have a one man inspection crew. Is there a wire getting between the block and starter mounting flange?
  • I 'will check this thing and update you
• How does the starter block holes look, are they damaged. The starter aluminum nose casing, are the mounting holes round not oval. Take a starter bolt while starter is out and stick the bolt into the holes and at the knurled bolt section and see how tight the bolt is to the hole itself, is it tight or wobbly loose?
  • If I remember correctly the bolt into the holes is not tight, but I will check and update you
• Are they starter bolts with knurled sections?
  • yes

Tnks a lot for your precious help

M1008IT

Have you had any luck on taking the starter apart and reassembling? Been thinking that the starter case was not clocked correctly. Causing the 2 sections from being completely flat to each other. And from the picture provided and RattleSnack posting picture makes it easier to look at. The case and drive gear housing are misaligned.

 

[M1008it]

Here I'm folks,

Sorry for the delay, busy days Here with Kids family and so on.

I took some photos of starter :


I took some photos of flywheel


After this I took out the solenoid and put up the starter motor (my intention was be able to move the bendix out to the flywheel) strenght bolts and made some photos with out 2mm shim :



And with 2 mm shim on the outside Bolt:


(Sorry for bad quality images but under there is difficult to put camera phone)

when I put out manually the bendix It Is seem like "out of axle" because bendix made down movement to grind the flywheel.. its seem because downthere there is parallax error.


I can not find the specific measure of bendix and nose cone ...

 

[Barrman]

Several things seem wrong with your starter nose cone housing. The starter bolt holes seem wallowed out and no longer round. The area around the motor casing pin is missing and you seem to have flexplate rub markings on the nose cone housing as well.

I suggest another 27MT starter nose cone at a minimum. Another known good starter would be best in my opinion. Make sure and use the support bracket appropriate for whatever starter you end up with as well.

 

[CARC686]

If you've got availability/cost issues being overseas, you could have the bolt holes bored over and sleeved using a pencil tracing of the engine block for your pattern.