Starter nightmare please help!!

[Shanahag]

Ok so i am in serious need of help. i just got a 1984 m1008. i have driven it for a month or so and then the starter went out. i got a new starter for it and put it in. after putting it in i tryed attaching the batteries again and the starter just spins. it does not try to start my truck it just spins non stop until i remove the battery cables again. Whats going on with this? i read in another post that it may be my starter relay so i went and got a new relay and i put it in and reconnected the bateries and it all seemed ok but when i went to start the truck the starter began to spin again and would not stop until i disconected the baterries. what am i suppose to do? i just want to drive my truck but i cannot get it to start. someone please help me.

G

 

[Blood_of_Tyrants]

Do you mean that the starter spins without cranking the engine? Then you have a bad starter.

When you turn the ignition switch to Start, it applies 12 to the coil of the relay. The relay then pull the contacts together ans switches 24 vdc to the starter.

 

[maybefixit]

Are you sure you got the wiring correctly set up? Is the vehicle a 12v conversion or factory setup?

Most starters use a spiral shaft to make the drive gear 'climb' the shaft when the starter rotates. I've heard it referred to as a Bendix drive. If the gear is not 'climbing' the shaft on starter rotation, then that can be due to slow starter motor turning speed (not fast enough to sling the gear into position) or reversed starter motor rotation / polarity. I'd be surprised if the starter motor could get reverse voltage being grounded to the block, so I wonder if you're only getting 12v to the starter main input instead of the needed 24v, causing the starter to spin too slow to engage the flywheel.

Might be worth taking a voltmeter down there and seeing what voltages are present, both before cranking and during cranking. Could also be worth looking at the 2nd battery connections and grounds - if the 2nd battery is not making good contact, maybe the reason the old starter went bad was due to undervoltage on startup. Undervoltage will cause arcing of the brushes when the motor tries to pull extra amps.

*Note - I don't have a CUCV myself and this is all speculative. I haven't worked on a 24v truck yet. Have worked on a lot of civvy vehicles, etc.

 

[stampy]

Sounds like a stuck relay or switch causing the starter to remain on. I had that happen on a Jeep when I had cranked it too long and the switch stuck closed, not fun removing an energized lead.

 

[Shanahag]

so from all of this information i am still stuck. i am going to take the starter out tomorrow and have autozone test it to see if it is the starter itself is bad. after switching my bad relay i hooked everything back up the right way!, and tryed turning the truck engine over but when i turned the key the starter began to spin it did not try to start the truck just spin. someone said my sylonoid on the starter might be bad? what else could be causing this to happen. does anyone have any insite on what i should do if my starter is ok and my voltage is ok and my relay is new? please help me i am new to working on these trucks and am kinda stupid with this stuff? please help me i just want to drive my truck!!

 

[Shanahag]

my truck is a factory wiring system by the way

 

[stampy]

Bench testing will show if you have a bad solenoid. I assume that now at least the key switch will engage and disengage the starter since you replaced the relay. Did you keep the old starter? some can be used for parts. I have never taken mine out but have delt with many other starters. I just take them to my local rebuilder. When you remove it check the teeth on the gear that engages the flywheel. If they are chewed up then it might not be engaging correctly. I have also seen a starter bench test ok and then when they go into it the brushes are bad and the "throwout spring" is weak, Getting it off the truck is the first step. Good Luck

 

[Crash_AF]

First off, where did you get the new starter? Did you make sure to get a 24V starter? The CUCV is not a K30 when talking about starters and alternators. I would be surprised if Autozone could test a 24V starter.

Later,
Joe

 

[Shanahag]

i will take out my starter and bench test it today. i got the starter from ebay it "said" it was a 24v and i emailed the seller and he said it was a 24v as well. so i am hoping that they are not pullin my chain around. were is the best place to get parts for this vehicle? ok i am going to explain what its doing agian so you guys may be able to help me. after i switched the relay and hooked everything back up i turned the key to start the engine. the starter began to spin but not engage just spin outta control when i shut the key off and pull it out the starter continues to go. it will keep going until i disconnect the battereis. so maybe i have an ignition relay blown? i am truely lost on what to do!!!!!!!! i am regreting buying this truck now because i cant drive it. but i will bench test my starter today or tomorrow and hopefully you guys can come up with something to help me out cuz i am dieing here. thanks guys.

 

[Crash_AF]

Yea, first step should be to test the starter. See if it is throwing the drive bendix out or not.

Second step, if you have a helper, disconnect the purple wire from the starter and turn the key to start. Have the helper verify that you are getting 24V at the purple wire. Also, while you are turning the key, check the silver relay under the dash (right under the spot for the stereo) to verify that the small relay is clicking. Since your problem seems to be directly related to the starter, I'm going to hazard a guess that the problem is isolated in the starter.

Do you have your old starter? If so, call around and find a reputable rebuild shop in your area and have it rebuilt. That way you KNOW you're getting a good starter to put back in it. Once you get that one in, have the one you got off of Ebay rebuilt and you'll have a good spare.

Also, try to find a pair of alternators for it to get rebuilt the same way, then you'll have two correct alternators as spares (these are special 'isolated ground' alternators).

Other than that, the glow plugs and glow plug controller are the only really specific parts and as long as you keep the system operating properly and don't abuse it, they are pretty reliable.

Later,
Joe

 

[Shanahag]

ok i will test the starter tomorrow i hope. and hopefully somthing will go my way. i have one more question for you guys. my truck does not like to start(when the starter is working) ... the guy who had it before me had to spray some starter fluid in it when it sat for more than a couple days.? what can i do to fix that. or will the nex starter fix that?

 

[maybefixit]

If you're pulling the starter, take a look at the flex plate (the big gear thing in the bell housing) and make sure it doesn't have teeth missing from it.
There's a lot of reasons why a engine won't start well, including the starter turning the engine too slowly, timing being off, or air in the lines (for a mechanical-injection diesel). If the engine runs well after starting, then the timing is probably good, and isn't the sort of thing you want to adjust by hand or by feel. Air in the lines would be a search on the site, it's been discussed in several threads. Make sure if there was a shim that came off with the old starter, that it gets put back in with the starter. The civvy GM's I've worked on often have a shim or two to keep the gears in the right alignment. I don't know if they were used on the diesel starters or not. Someone with direct experience might be able to weigh in on that issue.

I'd get the starter and electrical issues solved before touching anything else.

 

[Crash_AF]

The hard starting sounds like air in the fuel lines. Ether will burn out glow plugs if it is used while they are hot so that might be an issue too, but let's focus on one problem at a time. Besides, it's hard to troubleshoot air in fuel issues when the engine won't turn over.

My Suburban has some sort of air leak that's letting the fuel drain back and it loses prime. I end up having to crank it extra long first thing in the morning. Although it's starting to get to the point that the truck will stall after a hot restart (say 5 min at the convenience store getting a drink) and 'romps' really bad until the air clears the system.

Ugh, sorry about the tangent... LOL If you are at a stop trying to get the electric figured out, look at the condition of the rubber fuel lines running from the filter to the metal lines under the intake. Check the condition of all of the rubber lines for that matter. If they all look ok, the mechanical fuel pump on the passenger's front of the block might be failing.

Later,
Joe

 

[Shanahag]

ok so i tested my starter yesterday and it does not kick the bendix out. it just spins that starter like it was doing in the truck. i talked to me mechanic and he said the starter is not good. i am going to send it back and before i have this guy send me a new one does anyone know of the best place to get a new 24v starter for my truck is? i could only find them on ebay?
one other thing guys.......

How do i prevent this from happening to my next starter. is there anything else i need to look at before i put a new starter in again and fry it? i have switched the relay but what else could i do because the starter wires have constant power!

 

[army98]

My 1031 did the same thing , I had a bad starter relay (under dash) I just took it apart and cleaned it up , have not had that problem since. (I'm cheap I could have replaced it for under $25.00 but .....)

 

[army98]

Auto zone , Napa, ect......

 

[stuinnh]

CUCV Starter

A local auto electric shop can rebuild it for you. I believe Parramore Surplus Company in FL had them for $235? Make sure that the front starter bracket is installed and starter attached to it. It stops starter from moving during starting and saves your flywheel and or starter if wires touch metal. I have also had runaway starter that started cranking & cranking then horn went off, starter started smoking and melting battery wires, I cut hot side of battery cable, horn kept going off like doom day until I cut ground. Glad it was my wife behind the wheel in the driveway. Also, use new starter bolts. My 1008 has been converter to 12v

 

[stuinnh]

ok i will test the starter tomorrow i hope. and hopefully somthing will go my way. i have one more question for you guys. my truck does not like to start(when the starter is working) ... the guy who had it before me had to spray some starter fluid in it when it sat for more than a couple days.? what can i do to fix that. or will the next starter fix that?

Your problem is a bad fuel pressure sensor in the fuel filter base. It cracks and can leak. It is the round plastic thing held in with spring clip with 2 wires coming from it in the base under the filter. Military knew of problem. Only in military version, not civy. Used for ICE testing through terminal only, but makes it hard starting even in 60 degree weather after sitting. It is a $10 item to replace in the Stanadyne fuel filter base.

 

[maybefixit]

Shanahag,
If the new relay really is good, then you might check the 'start' wire from the ignition key switch system. See if the ignition switch is sending voltage to the relay all the time. I really doubt it's the problem, since if that were sticking, the starter should spin as soon as the battery is reconnected.
It sounds to me like the new relay is sticking like the old one was. Is the 'new' relay a pull, or New Old Stock (NOS)? Or is it a new-off-the-shelf NAPA one? If it's a really brand new one, see if you can exchange it as defective (might be tough - some places don't exchange electrical parts).
Rebuilding the original starter should do pretty good, there's a lot of easy to change parts in there (for a shop).

 

[Shanahag]

Ok guys so i sent my bad starter back and looking for a new one? any ideas? the starter guy in my town said is would be a pain to rebuild the old one cuz its so bad off. any ideas for a cheap new one?
also i need to figure out why my starter is getting power all the time? i switched my relay and connected the starter(the bad one) and connected the batteries and right when i attached the batteries the starter spins.?????? so if my relay is new what else could it be? i am totally lost and no one around here can help me. give me some advise guys please.. thanks guys.