Starter warm-up?

[Seth_O]

I searched around, but couldn't find anything similar to my issue - so hoping someone can give me a few ideas. My truck has begun some weird starting behavior: When I push the starter button the starter barely turns over. As I hold the button the starter 'winds-up' for lack of a better term and slowly picks up speed. The longer I hold the button, the faster the starter spins until finally the engine will fire. If I shut it down and then re-start, it will fire up almost instantly.

This is new behavior, it started a few weeks ago. I've never seen anything like this - any suggestions?

 

[18operator]

I would start with the connections going from the battery to the starter. Could be a little bit of corrosion on the connections at the starter. But if you're on here, you probably checked that already.

 

[maa45069]

how old are your batteries?

 

[Seth_O]

batteries are a few months old. i am pretty confident i have juice because the starter winds up, it doesnt wind down.

 

[porkysplace]

batteries are a few months old. i am pretty confident i have juice because the starter winds up, it doesnt wind down.

What kind of batteries ?
I also think you need to clean the connections and grounds to at least eliminate that possibility.
It could also be a internal issue in the starter , you may need to measure current draw while cranking.

 

[Seth_O]

What kind of batteries ?
I also think you need to clean the connections and grounds to at least eliminate that possibility.
It could also be a internal issue in the starter , you may need to measure current draw while cranking.

I couldn't think of a connection/battery issue that would cause slow start that speeds up. I will go through it all though to be sure. My concern is there is an issue with the starter itself. I was hoping someone would be able to chime in with an "Oh yeah, I had that exact same issue, and it was X." In the meantime I will get after all my connections and leads.

 

[porkysplace]

I couldn't think of a connection/battery issue that would cause slow start that speeds up. I will go through it all though to be sure. My concern is there is an issue with the starter itself. I was hoping someone would be able to chime in with an "Oh yeah, I had that exact same issue, and it was X." In the meantime I will get after all my connections and leads.

Actually I'm thinking bad fields , which is usually caused by bad connections or undersized batteries. Everybody says these car batteries will work (which they will for awhile) but they also shorten the starter life .

 

[V8srfun]

Poor connections and weak batteries could cause the described problem. I have seen batteries that were bad only have enough juice to click the solenoid but if you tried 3/5 times they would crank just fine. When batteries go bad lead flakes off the plates and settles to the bottom causing internal shorting and bad connection. And in some cases a the heat caused from loading them causes the lead fragments to move. And then again with corrosion or a poor connection outside of the battery the heat and or movement from engine cranking could cause the connection to temporarily become better. Now that I rambled on about things that almost never happen chances are that your starter is going bad

 

[rustystud]

I couldn't think of a connection/battery issue that would cause slow start that speeds up. I will go through it all though to be sure. My concern is there is an issue with the starter itself. I was hoping someone would be able to chime in with an "Oh yeah, I had that exact same issue, and it was X." In the meantime I will get after all my connections and leads.

Your starter bushings could be bad, but more then likely it's the starter windings and magnets loosing their magnetism. Once the starter builds up enough charge on the magnets it really starts to kick in. I have had new starters that sat for years go bad this way. If you have already checked all the connections and there good and the batteries are good then replace the starter.
It's that or your actually "Hydro-Locking" in the engine.

 

[glcaines]

When you first try to start it, let the starter turn the engine over a few revolutions before starting it. You can sometimes find poor connections by feeling for hot connections. I had a somewhat similar issue years ago and I ended up melting the post off of the top of the battery. I would recommend cleaning all connections before spending any money. This is good PM in any case.

 

[VPed]

I second glcaines advice. My deuce would occasionally just click once or twice before cranking and starting normally. Last week it would not crank at all, just clicking. I found one battery low and a post melted. I charged up both batteries individually but it became apparent that one of them was no longer holding charge. They were the original military batteries that were in the truck when I purchased from GL many years ago. I have purchased new batteries but I have not had a chance to install and try them yet. I bought a pair of group 31s with the stud terminals to eliminate many of the connections required.

 

[74M35A2]

I sell brand new modern lightweight gear reduction starters for cheap including warranty. You'd never look back after having one. Tested to work down to -40, and O ring sealed throughout. Measure your voltage at the starter while somebody cranks it. Needs to stay at 20V or higher. If it drops below, then it is a battery/cable/connection issue. If it stays above 20V, then it is a starter issue. I agree with the worn out bushing theory, but not the worn out magnet part. There are no natural magnets in these starters, they are all wire wound, including the solenoid, the armature, and the field. Same with the modern gear reduction starters, but they have computer balanced armatures that spin 20,000RPM and go through a 4:1 planetary gear set in the nose cone.

 

[rustystud]

I sell brand new modern lightweight gear reduction starters for cheap including warranty. You'd never look back after having one. Tested to work down to -40, and O ring sealed throughout. Measure your voltage at the starter while somebody cranks it. Needs to stay at 20V or higher. If it drops below, then it is a battery/cable/connection issue. If it stays above 20V, then it is a starter issue. I agree with the worn out bushing theory, but not the worn out magnet part. There are no natural magnets in these starters, they are all wire wound, including the solenoid, the armature, and the field. Same with the modern gear reduction starters, but they have computer balanced armatures that spin 20,000RPM and go through a 4:1 planetary gear set in the nose cone.

These look like a good deal ! I might just have to get one for a spare.

 

[74M35A2]

They are, and we test them to a minimum of 50,000 cycles, which is the equivalent of 10 years of continuous usage as a daily driver class 8 vehicle. Best to use as primary, sell your OE one for $50, and go from there. I'll take one apart and post some pics, you'll be impressed with what goes into them.

 

[Seth_O]

So I put my multimeter on my starter and had soldier 2 turn it over. Power at the starter dipped to only a few volts. The problem appears to be pre-starter. I put the meter on the batteries themselves and I get 23.2v. I assume its supposed to more like 25-26v? Brand new batteries too grrrr.......

 

[rustystud]

So I put my multimeter on my starter and had soldier 2 turn it over. Power at the starter dipped to only a few volts. The problem appears to be pre-starter. I put the meter on the batteries themselves and I get 23.2v. I assume its supposed to more like 25-26v? Brand new batteries too grrrr.......

Wait, you tested the voltage at the starter and it dropped to 26 volts correct ? Then you tested the voltage at the batteries and it tested out to 23 volts ? That's not possible. The voltage at the starter cannot be higher then the batteries. I would take your starter out of the truck and see how it spins over on the bench. If it is spinning good (good torque) and the armature is moving freely and not binding and the bushings look good then you have a connection problem somewhere.

 

[74M35A2]

No, he said voltage at the starter dropped to a few volts. Your batteries are low to begin with. Charge them both well and repeat the test. Fully charged lead acid batteries should show 25.4-25.6v. Next step after that is to make sure the alternator is charging them when the engine is running. This should be any voltage higher than 25.6v.

 

[Seth_O]

No, he said voltage at the starter dropped to a few volts. Your batteries are low to begin with. Charge them both well and repeat the test. Fully charged lead acid batteries should show 25.4-25.6v. Next step after that is to make sure the alternator is charging them when the engine is running. This should be any voltage higher than 25.6v.

This is what I was worried about, dangit. Earlier this year I replaced my old batteries that were on the truck when I bought it years ago. I put in new group 31's, and now they're not doing the job. I'll pull them this weekend and get them charged up and then re-run the test. My old batteries (before they started to die) would hold a charge for months at a time w/o the truck being started. These don't seem to be doing the trick.

Really appreciate the help guys.

 

[Seth_O]

Next step after that is to make sure the alternator is charging them when the engine is running. This should be any voltage higher than 25.6v.

Is that +25.6v at the battery or at the generator? I assume there's some loss b/n the generator and the batteries.

 

[Wolfgang the Gray]

I sell brand new modern lightweight gear reduction starters for cheap including warranty. You'd never look back after having one. Tested to work down to -40, and O ring sealed throughout. Measure your voltage at the starter while somebody cranks it. Needs to stay at 20V or higher. If it drops below, then it is a battery/cable/connection issue. If it stays above 20V, then it is a starter issue. I agree with the worn out bushing theory, but not the worn out magnet part. There are no natural magnets in these starters, they are all wire wound, including the solenoid, the armature, and the field. Same with the modern gear reduction starters, but they have computer balanced armatures that spin 20,000RPM and go through a 4:1 planetary gear set in the nose cone.

Computer balanced armatures you say? Is that computer during manufacture or built into the starter?