STARTER WOES

[jaytee]

So I think I have my wiring problems fixed but now I have a new obstacle. I re-did all of the wiring on the truck, turned the key to crank it (fired right up!) but heard a grinding noise. The next time I tried to crank it, more grinding. I figured it was starter motor teeth grinding against the flywheel, and I was right. I crawled underneath the rig and saw the passenger side starter motor bolt hanging down from the motor about a half inch. I tried to tighten it back up, but it only goes so far. I pulled the whole thing out and just as I feared, the threads in the hole are stripped out up to about halfway through the hole. The threads in the block are good halfway up and beyond. The threads of the bolt wont engage enough to hold the starter motor in place when it is engaged. The torque ripped it out. I think the holes were like that before hand and the PO had it barely in place. My newly replaced wiring is now sending more current to the starter motor, which means more torque, which ripped out the threads.

What should I do? Some sort of shim? JB Weld? Longer bolts? Any other ideas?

I am about to go outside and start shooting the blazer. After the time and money I spent replacing wiring and fuses and fusible links and the water pump and all of this other crap, now this happens. I could have bought a Honda or Subaru and spent the time I saved with my family. Looks like I will be driving my Dodge pickup to work for the time being, at 10 MPG.

 

[85-m1028]

there is a support bracket that bolts to the block for the other end of the starter. I had to redrill a new hole in it to line up with the 12v starter. make sure you have this.

perhaps you can get a tap set and try to rethread the existing hole. or drill out the threads and tap one size bigger? this would require drilling out the starter housing holes too. or drill out larger hole and tapp it for a sleeve insert.

make sure your bolts were long enough. I can't recall what size they should be maybe someone else can chime in on that.

my millspec ones had a washer. but the civy ones are the type with the washer as part of the head of the bolt.

 

[319]

jaytee, it's best to use a Heli-coil to repair that. If you're not familiar with them, have someone who is do it. Thats a bad place to experiment. The Heli-coil is a stainless steel insert that will be stronger, if installed properly, than the original threads.

 

[jaytee]

so should I find some sort of mobile mechanic/machinist? I have never done a heli-coil, I am familiar with the process sort of, but I don't want to experiment on my engine.

 

[devilman96]

Always always always always always use new bolts in 6.2 starters!!!

 

[319]

jaytee, That starter bolt has to go in straight, there is no fudge room. If I were you, I'd take it to a trusted competent automotive shop as they will want to put it on a hoist rather than lay on their back in your driveway trying to drill. This way you'll get some sort of warranty.

 

[dependable]

The HELI-COIL repair works quite well if you know what you are doing. But if you screw it up, you could cause yourself unending headaches. I agree it is Best to get help if you have never done one before. Do your first one on the bench or something. f you do try it wear good saefty goggles or you will get lots of metal shards in you eyes.

 

[jaytee]

so I got my new starter bolts in the mail, as well as the brace bracket for the front, and some other goodies. I compared the new bolts to the old and there are some major differences.

The new ones are shorter, have a different head, and the threads are a different pitch.
you can see the bolts here:
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/garageimage.php?do=full&p=76589


Should I get different bolts? Has anyone seen this before?

I have an offset gear reduction starter I think (the bendix shaft is not centered on the motor housing), is there a difference in the bolts? Did my truck have the wrong ones in it to begin with?

I tried threading the new bolts into the block, the go in a little ways and then stop. I cannot tell if it is because the shoulder of the bolts where the stippling is, is bigger on the new ones, or if its because the threads are different. I don't know if the PO had the wrong stuff in there to begin with or what. I have never done a heli-coil alone and I don't have any friends with much experience. I do not want to start experimenting with my engine block since this is supposed to be my daily driver. Any suggestions?

 

[maritimer]

is the bolt broken perhaps
i know when my starter bolt broke the threaded part was 1/2" inside the block ?

 

[jaytee]

starter bolts

If you look at the pic in the link above, the silver ones are the bolts that came out, the gold ones are the bolts that rock auto sent, AC delco part number 15544950 according to the paperwork.

are the new bolts the wrong ones maybe? I thought that maybe they sent me the the ones for a SBC. rock auto doesn't have a starter bolt for the chevy 350 listed that I can find

anyone out there have an SBC or know what the bolts look like? I think the ones they sent are standard thread.

are there years of the 6.2 that had standard thread starter bolts?

 

[2deuce]

Ditto what Maritimer said. There doesn't seem like there would be enough downward force to pull those threads out of your block from your starter but plenty of force to break them off up in the hole. I suppose anything could happen, but I've had the last 1/2" of the bolt break off in there.
Greg

 

[IRWFO]

RE: starter bolts

I just wanted to add my 2 cents since I had all kind of starter issues that are now gone. I only gave a quick read so if I missed something please forgive. The 6.2 starter bolts are available at any auto parts store. Same with the shims. There is at least a 1/2" of NO threads in the beginning of the holes in the block. It's made that way so the bolt will break rather then taking a chunk of the block off if the starter tilts and torques the bolt. You have to have the starter in perfect alignment for the bolts to thread in.
I would thread the bolt in by hand and then measure the space to make sure it's going to tighten the starter up to the block. If it doesn't you have a part of the bolt broken in the block which is very easy to get out since the bolts are soft. Get a reverse drill bit and 9 times out of ten it will spin itself out. If not an EZ-Out will finish the job.
I am going to assume your Flexplate teeth are shot and you should replace it now. Hope this helps.

 

[jaytee]

I have the 1/2 inch or so of no threads, followed by decent looking threads. I looked at them as best I could, for damage or evidence of cross threading. It seemed fine. There is no bolt broken off, I could stick a piece of wire all the way up in there on both of them, and with no starter on the bolts go up in there just fine.

all of the NAPAs here are closed on Sunday, which is my only day off, and close at 530 during the week, and 4 on Saturdays, so I am basically screwed in that department. The Autozones and Advance Auto parts, which are the only other stores near me don't have them and generally are staffed by people who have no business selling auto parts. Plus, starter bolts just don't seem to be their thing. Fram oil filters and Armor All seem to be their big money makers. My K5 will never see Fram oil filters or Armor All.

my flex plate and bendix teeth are fine.

My starter has no shim on it. Should it be shimmed?

I am still waiting on the bolt I ordered that holds the front starter support bracket to the block, so I have some time to find the right starter bolts and track them down I guess.

 

[jaytee]

OK so I found an autozone that had the starter bolts, no thanks to the people who work there.

The bolts that were in the cucv holding the starter in were standard SBC gasser bolts. So either the PO re-threaded the holes for the other bolts, or they were cross threaded, or some thing worse. That would make sense as to why the old bolts weren't in there really well to begin with. So I bought new SBC bolts. If I cannot get them to thread in there properly, then it will be time for a heli-coil and the proper bolts.

here we go again.

 

[IRWFO]

First off the GM part# is correct for your truck. So when the bolt comes it will be right. For some reason I think it is the same bolt as an after 1982 SBC. I kind of remember talking about it to someone a while back. Either way my bolts came from the HELP rack and they are correct. I in my experience do not see one of those bolts cross threading the blocks threads. The bolt is just too soft. Plus it doesn't make sence that someone would go through the time to re-thread the block when the bolt is readily avalable. But then again you just never know.

I jinxed myself by saying I have my starter problems all worked out because I just had an issue come up this morning. I am going to start a new post on it.

 

[jaytee]

So I went to a parts store that had the bolts in stock

The bolts that rock auto sent are the right bolts.

my block had SBC bolts in it.

there is no heli-coil in there, so either the bolts were cross threaded in there or the block was re-tapped. I bought new SBC bolts and I am going to see if I can get them to do the trick. if not, I will re-tap or helicoil for proper bolts.

I also think I found proper hardware to attach my support bracket to the starter.

 

[jaytee]

so I climbed under there tonight, tried to clean up the threads that are in the block and get the new SBC bolts that I bought to work. No dice.

The SBC bolts are too narrow for the bolt holes anyway. They have slop. I am glad I dropped the starter when I did, so I could learn that the PO put these stupid SBC bolts in there and ruined the threads in the process, as well as didn't re-install the starter bracket.
I have the proper bolts for the starter now, metric ones, as well as bolts for the bracket and the bracket itself. All I need are the holes in the block repaired. I'm going to start calling around tomorrow I guess and get some quotes for a mobile repair/machinist guy to come by and put heli-coils in for the proper bolts. If none of them will do it, then I guess I will find a shop that will do it and have it towed there.

Or I can sell it. If you want it, come get it, 1000 dollars buys a nice 85 1009 in MD with a strong 6.2 that doesn't smoke or use any oil at all. All it needs is some heli-coils or something.

 

[beaubeau]

Jaytee, I had a customer who had starter problems with a 6.2 a few years ago. The Ear on the Block where the bolts go in actually broke. I had Welded the alluminum Head of the starter to the alluminum Shield for the tourque converter. New starter did well for about 4 years. Long story short, I bought the same truck and about 6 months, the starter went Bad. I did change it by removing the Dust cover with the starter. I had a new starter Motor put on same head that I welded, and replaced the starter. Lasted several years until I sold the truck for parts. Anything is possible. The End Bracket is most important with these 6.2s. It must be used. You could try using the next size bigger bolt if all is bad. Grade 8 bolts and I cut Slits in them and the go in like a Tat, treading itself as you screw them in. I wish I were closer, I would buy the vehiclle from you. Good Luck anyway, Phil

 

[319]

jaytee, remember, whoever does it, be sure to have the Heli-coils installed at the correct depth for those bolts.

 

[jaytee]

yeah I think that might be the tricky part, getting the helicoil anchored in there securely at that depth. I was hoping there was someone here who had done it before. I have been involved in less conventional starter repair before, welding, jb welding, and worse. I don't want to do that here. If I keep it I want it to be done right. If I sell it, I don't want to pass on a problem to someone else. It's one thing if someone else buys it knowing what needs to be done, but it would be different to fix it in a way that is unconventional and not disclose that to the buyer, like just happened to be with these f-ing SBC standard bolts.