Steering wheel doesn't return from either direction

[stevenbeven]

Hello all, first post after purchase of M1028 last week. Excited about updates for it and seems to be pretty good platform so far but has some unexpected issues so far but main one for this post is the steering wonders..

When driving straight then making a sharp right turn 90 degrees when straitening out the steering wheel does not return to center right away. but eventually will if continuing straight.

If turning the opposite direction in the same 90 degree turn the same thing happens - steering wheel is off center again from the other direction but will eventually straighten out if going straight long enough.

I took it to an alignment shop and they said steering gear was bad - replaced steering gear and sent me on my way. They were nice people just got it wrong...

Exact same problem persists, anyone know the fix?

Modifications to note -
- 6 inch lift
- 454 engine swap ( i don't think this matters)
- driveline seems stock other than lift

looking forward to the site! Will post updates of truck updates!

steven

 

[tennmogger]

Suspension lift equals caster change. Return-to-center depends on correct caster angle. Evaluate your caster angle after the lift.

 

[Chaski]

Increasing positive caster helps return to center.

If the yoke on your front axle was clocked up with the 6” lift that would reduce your positive caster, possibly take you into the negative caster range. I concur, have someone check your caster or do it yourself with a DIY allignment set.

That being said the steering on these pickups never ever felt like a modern car. Best case return to center is weak and the steering feels over assisted where you can turn the steering wheel with an arthritic pinky finger. There might be nothing wrong with your steering, just you are not used to the 1980’s over assisted GM steering feel.

 

[nyoffroad]

Like others said "caster" But that should've been measured and noticed at the aliagnment shop, also didn't the shop tech test drive it?
I'll bet the "tech" dosn't know or understand the geometry for a proper alignment and just puts shims where the computer tells him to. Find an old shop that does trucks BIG TRUCKS and talk to the oldest guy there., dang I feel old.

 

[stevenbeven]

Sorry for delay, thanks I agree that this was not the ideal shop to go to for this in reflection.. I believe there are a few issues here that I'll take it to another "old school shop" that can do a proper alignment in my area.

A couple other notes is that the tie rod ends look to be a bit loose, kingpin spacer block looked to be a bit loose also. Do you guys feel a swap to crossover steering would correct these issues as well? I don't really want to jump in spending money here and then do it all again later with a crossover steering conversion. I'm leaning towards just going with the crossover steering asap then getting alignment. Are there elements to installing a crossover steering conversion that would need to be done at an alignment shop? I've never done anything like that before but want to minimize as much cost as I can on this job as it seem to be bleeding me dry... lol.

I've seen few different threads about crossover conversion and some say crossmember modification is required? If someone knows a good thread link to follow for this please shoot it over. Any extra details a noobie would need to have pointed out for this would be greatly appreciated as well!

Thanks!

 

[stevenbeven]

Also, looks like around 400-500 cost for parts on these, what do you think install would cost?

 

[Chaski]

I have crossover with high steer and hydraulic assist.

Here is what crossover will do for you...
1) It eliminates the pull to the right under hard braking.
2) It allows full lock to lock left and right under full compression and full droop.
3) It lessens bump steering.
4) Can cause “death wobble” if you don’t have a Panhard Rod or hydraulic assist.


It will not help return to Center.

I really dislike riser blocks for steering, they seem a little sketchy. If any of that stuff is loose you are asking for trouble and or death.

If you go crossover, without high steer you retain your stock tie rod. Only the drag link from the pitman arm to the knuckle gets pitched in the trash. So if your tie rod ends on your tie rod are junk your money would be well spent to replace them.

Here is my steering ramble. This is a 30+ year old pickup with a large lift. It is very possible that your kingpin assembly on the knuckles is worn / binding / damaged. Replacing the lower kingpin bearing and race, along with the upper bushing and spring may be a wise thing to do in your quest for better steering. The parts are about $200, but labor could be pretty spendy since the axle has to be taken down to the bare “C’s”.

As for the parts budget for crossover, you might be a little low. Personally I like Off-road Designs arms, pitman and draglink. You will also need a 2wd steering box or at least a matching sector shaft out of a 2wd box to put in your 4wd box. Might as well get a rebuilt box while you are at it... or re-seal/ rebuild your own. I also think you should budget for hydraulic assist or a Panhard Rod.

Last thing. You only have to modify or swap engine crossmember if you go high steer. Also you can install all parts, get allignment close with a tape measure and then transport it a sensible distance at a sensible speed to an allignment shop once you are sure everything is installed and torqued correctly.

 

[stevenbeven]

I'll look into the ORD options.

I'm thinking about going with a 2 wheel steering gear that has been ported that could allow full hydro upgrade later if I want to add that. Hydro is just a large extra cost that i'd prefer to use with other updates over the next couple of months first then circle back to that if feasible / needed. Looking at postponing high steer for later as well if major benefit is off-road obstacle avoidance? if there are other benefits then i'll consider.

The crossover may not fix the particular issues by itself but I figure if i'm talking about replacing tie rod ends now might as well just put that money towards crossover steering upgrade.

i've watched some videos and doesn't look to difficult to switch over. one piece i came across is a spring delete from the kingpin and wanted to see if others have had positive results from that? Looks like it replaces a the spring system with a nylon bushing. While everything is apart wanted to see if you guys thought it would be worth doing that as well.

Thanks !

 

[Chaski]

I run the polymer kingpin springs. Crane Axle makes them. They are stiffer than the steel springs but still have some give unlike the spring elimination kits that use a jackscrew to preload the kingpin bushing. Personally I think the original kingpin design is pretty ingenious and I like the idea that it can give a bit...

High steer just makes your wallet lighter and gets your tie rod up out of harms way. If you do go high steer in future land I highly suggest ORD’s engine crossmember. TNA also makes a nice one with a panhard mount.

 

[Sharecropper]

I installed ORD's crossover without hydraulic assist or high steer and I have no issues whatsoever. I'm running 37.5 HMMWV wheels & tires and the steering is tight and responsive. I really believe your issue may be related to the steering gear itself. Heck if you are going to spend any cash you probably should order a 2wd gear from ORD and install the crossover.
The crossover was really easy to install. While I had the wheels off I went ahead and and rebuilt everything including new Spicer grease-able u-joints in the short axles. New bearings, seals, king pin bushings, what am I forgetting? New Moog steering stabilizer. I threw the factory sway bar in the dumpster. New 4" lift springs and all new ORD grease-able poly spring bushings. My truck tracks straight and true with no shimmy or wobble whatsoever. I will probably add the ORD high steer just because of the teenager still left in me. I really don't think you need it, unless you are going to be running in rocks or stumps which could bend the tie rod in the lower position. Just my opinion.

Here are a few photos -

 

[Chaski]

More pictures. These show what gets in the way with high steer

 

[Glockfan]

FYI - I have an ad over in the classified section for an ORD dropped Pitman arm and raised steering block along with the ARP studs. I am going crossover with full hydraulic assist. These parts are costing me $1800. The parts I have for sale will likely get you by cheaply. Message me for details. My truck has a 6" ORD lift and 37" HMMWV tires.

Link https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showt...kit-for-K30-M1008-M1028-M1031-CUCV&highlight=

 

[stevenbeven]

Thanks guys! Your builds look great!

I just ordered a PSC ported steering gear, crossover steering gear, steering gear brace kit, & new heavy duty tie rod. I’ll get the poly bushings too, I’m close to Murfreesboro so hope I can just swing by and pick em up next week. Feeling Broke!!!

Chaski , sharecropper, & glockfan - looks like you guys are all running H1 tires and wheels too - couldn’t tell on Chaski’s for wheels. I’d like to set mine up with this too, not a fan of how my rims stick out with the current tires.

Any recommendations on how to make them fit? Is the only way to replace with dually hub for front and spacers rear?

Looking for best cost effective, and I can repost / search other posts if needed to make new thread.

Chaski, that’s some good flex from your truck too!


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[stevenbeven]

Glockfan, I’m hoping to get my setup to look as clean as yours sometime! Already ordered crossover kit so I’m good there. I’ve got 6” skyjacker lift on mine and the block was a bit loose, tightened that yesterday and it helped a bit with the steering. I think if I get all the other stuff tightened up it may significantly reduce my steering issues and give me a lot better function.


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[Glockfan]

As far as using standard hmmwv wheels go, about the best option is to use dually hubs on the front and 2” STEEL spacers on the back. I had Lenny Stahl make hub centric and lug centric spacers for the rear. I tried to go on the cheap and run 3” Chinese aluminum spacers initially and I’m luck to be alive. I lost one wheel completely in a parking lot. After that little incident, I parked the truck until I could do it right. The hubs and quality spacers are not cheap. I’ve got $600 in my setup. Nothing can replace the piece of mind though knowing your wheels aren’t going turn loose at some random time!

 

[Chaski]

2nd on Stahl. Made in USA - steel 2" bolt on hub centric spacers with stock HMMWV wheels. I run Stahl spacers front and back. The Dually front hubs are good too, but for me I wanted my wheels tucked in as far as possible. The Dually hubs are like running 3" spacers.

 

[Sharecropper]

Regarding wheel spacers, I also recommend solid steel 2” spacers from a reputable US supplier. I opted to use spacers front and rear instead of the dual my front hubs so I could quickly remove the spacers and reinstall regular rims if I so desire. Hail I might get a wild hair and want to reinstall my 11.00/20 NDT wheels & tires.

 

[stevenbeven]

@sharecropper - saw your post on the NDT Wheels a little while ago, those actually look pretty cool. Do you have any tires for them also or have recommendations for tires? do these need spacers? if not I'm super interested!

appreciate the feedback on the spacers all. ha, i really didn't think a hunk of metal would cost so **** much!

 

[Sharecropper]

@sharecropper - saw your post on the NDT Wheels a little while ago, those actually look pretty cool. Do you have any tires for them also or have recommendations for tires? do these need spacers? if not I'm super interested!

appreciate the feedback on the spacers all. ha, i really didn't think a hunk of metal would cost so **** much!

I have decided to keep my 20's for now. I want to get my P400 6.5 and 700R4 transmission installed to see how it feels out on the freeway. If it is still geared a little low and the P400 has enough power, I may re-install the 20's to pick up a little cruising speed. Here's a photo -

 

[stevenbeven]

Yeah I like that setup! Let me know if you change your mind. I live in nashville and come to KY all the time for work. In Evansville, IN today actually.

Are there any clubs our group meetings in the area?


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