Stuck glow plug, advice needed.

[FlameRed]

Was busy today trying to replace all the glow plugs as a maintenance item.

Got busy on the pass side, cylinders 8 & 6 went smooth.

Cylinder 4 was seized. The officer I bought the M998 from said he replaced all the glow plugs, but #4 was a different shade and I think he never did #4 as he did not want to fight it!

I am soaking it with penetrating oil. I put on this handy tool I got for this problem:



This tool is difficult as the 13/16 wrench cannot grab the outer "nut" as the heat shield interferes. It is a real PITA.

Even using a 26" breaker bar, I could not free it up. Tool did not help, it just mangled the 3/8" nut on the glow plug.

I put so much torque on it that the tool mangled the 3/8 "nut" on top glow plug. I think I might be able to hammer a socket on it as I removed the tool and I am soaking it some more penetrating oil.

I googled and seems like every one recommends the jj and a racing tool but it looks a lot like the tool I used.

Says it won't get hung up in with the heat shield. Besides, the top nut is probably too mangled right now fpr a different tool like the above.

So any advice for me? I know, next is removing the injector. I have a feeling it is going to snowball into a head pull eventually! ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DREDnot]

Are you saying you cant break the glow plug loose from being fully tight? or were you able to loosen it and it just wont come out of the hole?
The extractor tool is for when the glow plug is fully unscrewed but the tip is swollen and wont slide out of the head.

If you cant crack the glow plug loose in the first place then you may have to use the heat method to get it loose to avoid further hardships

 

[mgFray]

If you can turn the glow plug, and just can't fit the tool you have in there.. Then you need a different extractor. Look up "OTC 6005A Glow Plug Remover Tool Set". This is what I used on a counterfit set of glow plugs to get them out. You need to be careful not to break the half-moons that are part of the set, but it worked for me and I'd recommend them if the regular tool won't work for you.. (as long as the glow plug itself isn't froze in the threads!)

 

[FlameRed]

Sorry i was not clear, I have one that is frozen in the rhreads and I cannot turn. And another that swelled and is stuck.

Hysterical review of that tool. This is how I felt after two hours inventing new curse words...

I tried everything and almost set the truck on fire and give up on it till I tried this product.

Edit: In the meanwhile, I successfully managed to snap the hex head off another glow plug completely even while using a small ratchet. I really, really think that the previous owner just left me a mess and left these for me!

Looks like I need to find someone more qualified than me to remove the heads.

 

[Lothar]

Sorry i was not clear, I have one that is frozen in the rhreads and I cannot turn. And another that swelled and is stuck.

Hysterical review of that tool. This is how I felt after two hours inventing new curse words...

Pb blaster for a day or 2 on the stuck threads. Antisieze on the threads of replacement plugs. Is it possible to file 2 opposing sides of the damaged/swollen plug so that it fits into the puller? I have used the JJ and A tool you pictured with success. Just had to cut off the terminal and it takes a little bit of work to squeeze and wiggle the tool onto the plug.

 

[mgFray]

Sorry i was not clear, I have one that is frozen in the rhreads and I cannot turn. And another that swelled and is stuck.

Hysterical review of that tool. This is how I felt after two hours inventing new curse words...



Edit: In the meanwhile, I successfully managed to snap the hex head off another glow plug completely even while using a small ratchet. I really, really think that the previous owner just left me a mess and left these for me!

Looks like I need to find someone more qualified than me to remove the heads.

Good luck!

If you do end up removing the heads, definitely have them inspected by a machine shop. It's worth it.

There will probably be cracks in the pre-combusion cup bottoms, but don't worry! There are some standard measurements you can use to determine if it's OK or if they need to be replaced or not. If they do need to be replaced, look for "real ones", as the cheaper copies are much rougher internally. (I had to settle for the later, but "works for me".)

As long as you don't have any cracks in the heads themselves, you should be good. Be sure to use the real head-gasket for the engine from a reputable supplier. I'm sure I could have sourced them from NAPA or O'Reilly or elsewhere, but what I quickly found out is they had no idea what the correct thickness of the head gaskets was supposed to be and there are a ton of different sizes. I got mine from MacMotors and they work great (and I know they're the correct one for the engine!)

Ohh and if you find a decent shop, expect to spend anywhere from $2500 to $4000 to pull the heads, send them to a machine shop, replace the gaskets and re-install everything. (The head bolts also need to be replaced!). This IS something you can do yourself, if you have the time and shop to work on it... but to do it right you really need to pull the radiator core off, as well as the air intake and loosen the exhaust.

 

[TOBASH]

Not su

Sorry i was not clear, I have one that is frozen in the rhreads and I cannot turn. And another that swelled and is stuck.

Hysterical review of that tool. This is how I felt after two hours inventing new curse words...



Edit: In the meanwhile, I successfully managed to snap the hex head off another glow plug completely even while using a small ratchet. I really, really think that the previous owner just left me a mess and left these for me!

Looks like I need to find someone more qualified than me to remove the heads.

Not sure you need to remove the heads.

Pull the injectors and push the broken bits down and remove through Injector holes. PB blaster first. Drill out the broken hex and either Heli Coil or drill and tap a larger hole to accept a larger outer thread diameter with inner thread of the glow plug.

This sucks but there are methods.

 

[FlameRed]

Thanks for the advice. I was reading some removed heads and other injectors so I was not sure.

I think I should be able to manage to remove the injectors myself. But right now I am a bit bummed out. I think I should just let the truck sit till I build up some motivation again.

 

[TOBASH]

If you wait you will lose all motivation

 

[Lothar]

That's the kind of day I had yesterday. Broke a vent window reinstalling it. Really stupid mistake. But I'm not gonna pay someone to do it for 200 bucks when I can do it for 400.

 

[Mogman]

I think I would just live with 7 good glow plugs before getting to the point I had to pull the heads, they only affect the first couple minutes of operation.

 

[TOBASH]

I think I would just live with 7 good glow plugs before getting to the point I had to pull the heads, they only affect the first couple minutes of operation.

Now there might be pressure leaks preventing the cylinder from working properly. That broken stuff should come out imho

 

[Mogman]

Now there might be pressure leaks preventing the cylinder from working properly. That broken stuff should come out imho

Well it is ether leaking or not, yes you have to fix leaking..............

 

[FlameRed]

Folks,

Thanks for the kind advice. I was doing more learning on this and I don't see how removing the injector will help with a frozen or stuck glow plug at all. I think the glow plug is part of the head. I am looking at this clear picture from a YouTube and it looks to me like the glow plug are drilled into the head. So even if I could fit a drill in there, which I cannot, all that crap is going right down into the engine.

Or am I missing something?

 

[TOBASH]

Yes, you’re missing something. When you remove the glow plug you blow the bits out and or retrieve them via the injector hole.

 

[FlameRed]

Well, now I made a fine mess of things.

1. Batteries disconnected.
2. I had previously replaced the wait light itself as it would not light at all.
3. Replaced the temp sensor with the one supplied that is supposed to match the NOS KDS box I got.
4. I replaced 4 out of the 8 glow plugs. I unplugged the two glow plugs that I mangled since I am not sure they are ok or not. The threads seem to seal the cylinders on the ones I mangled. So I left the two mangled glow plugs unplugged. Two old glow plugs that I did not touch (unknown condition) plugged in. Four glow plugs that I replaced plugged in.
5. Original harness now used and the old LAU harness removed.
6. I tried to seal the extra hole created by the LAU harness.
7. I replaced the LAU Distribution Box with a NOS KDS Smart Start System just now.
8. Batteries reconnected.
9. I switched to Run and the wait light briefly flashes on and goes out and I see the volt gauge in the yellow range which seems to indicates the KDS is trying. No "wait" light after that.
10. The engine cranked and started and seemed to run just fine! Voltage was in the middle of the green range. I was happy for a minute. Shutdown the engine to do some other stuff.
11. Came back hours later and results are then not good. The wait light now briefly flashes when I switch to Run. Then the wait light goes out and never comes back on.
12. The engine will not crank when turned to start. If I push +24V to the starter with with a power probe with the switch in run position it cranks and starts and runs just fine.
13. After sulking for a few hours more, I went back and just tried the start switch again. It cranked for a half second and then stopped.
14. Ran a temp wire directly from the start switch to the starter, bypassing everything, and it will crank and run just fine.
15. So there is something going on with the start circuit. Looking at the schematic, all I see is the neutral safety switch in that circuit. I will test the neutral safety switch next.

So obviously I have some multiple other issues.

1. Wait light not working. Problems with the KDS box, grounds or something like that.
2. No cranking - test neutral safety switch.

I can definitely say that the old LAU Distribution Box had the very same issues, except that the wait light would not flash breifly at all even after I replaced the defective wait light.

I going to break out the maintenance manuals and try to go through them to figure out what is bad. Hard for a newbie amateur like me to work one issue at a time, let alone two!

Thanks for all the suggestions. I post what I find as I struggle through it.

 

[TOBASH]

Sounds like DEAD BATTERIES OR POOR CONNECTION.

I recently had someone call me because he thought the protective control box I sold him was bad. I offered to send him a new one. He then went under his passenger seat and found that the battery connection fell off. Right after that, his car started perfectly and the box did not need to be replaced. We both had a good laugh.

Always start at the foundation before working your way up. My humble advice.

 

[MarkM]

If you remove the injector you can soak the troublesome glow plug with penetrating oil on the inner threads.it may help.

Mark

 

[Mogman]

The start circuit goes through the "box"
Use a test light and see is the signal is getting in and out of the box.
Also make sure the connectors are good and tight.

 

[mgFray]

Double check the connectors (as previously mentioned). If that is good, I believe the wait light goes to ground (this is from memory so DEFINITELY verify in the wiring diagram!). If your grounds in the dash area are damaged or iffy that could be a problem. There is a grounding screw to the 'right' of the gauges (inside of the dash) right behind the heater controls. Check that one is not corroded. Also check above the steering wheel shaft and make sure you don't have any chaffed or broken grounds. (This happened to me and caused a ton of problems!)